Wick Stick
Well-known member
When we're done talking about the pagan origins of Christmas, can we talk about the pagan origins of temple / tabernacle worship and animal sacrifices?
:ducks:
:ducks:
The Shocking Pagan Origin of CHRISTMAS!
- Thread starter Elia
- Start date
Which came first, Christ or pagans?
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
The pagans of course. The "virgin birth", the "resurrection", it existed many centuries before Christianity:
http://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm
(The following article is adapted from a chapter in Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled, as well as excerpts from other articles, such as "The Origins of Christianity" and "The ZEITGEIST Sourcebook.")
"Both Mithras and Christ were described variously as 'the Way,' 'the Truth,' 'the Light,' 'the Life,' 'the Word,' 'the Son of God,' 'the Good Shepherd.' The Christian litany to Jesus could easily be an allegorical litany to the sun-god. Mithras is often represented as carrying a lamb on his shoulders, just as Jesus is. Midnight services were found in both religions. The virgin mother...was easily merged with the virgin mother Mary. Petra, the sacred rock of Mithraism, became Peter, the foundation of the Christian Church."
Gerald Berry, Religions of the World
"Mithra or Mitra is...worshipped as Itu (Mitra-Mitu-Itu) in every house of the Hindus in India. Itu (derivative of Mitu or Mitra) is considered as the Vegetation-deity. This Mithra or Mitra (Sun-God) is believed to be a Mediator between God and man, between the Sky and the Earth. It is said that Mithra or [the] Sun took birth in the Cave on December 25th. It is also the belief of the Christian world that Mithra or the Sun-God was born of [a] Virgin. He travelled far and wide. He has twelve satellites, which are taken as the Sun's disciples.... [The Sun's] great festivals are observed in the Winter Solstice and the Vernal Equinox—Christmas and Easter. His symbol is the Lamb...."
Swami Prajnanananda, Christ the Saviour and Christ Myth
Here is more that proves that Christianity is the same old paganism:
http://christianity.stackexchange.c...-explain-the-similarities-between-other-socie
"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15
Apple7
New member
Nothing here refutes Yahweh in the flesh.
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
Wipe the excrement out of your eyes and read THIS
"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15
Gentiles were considered Pagans of various beliefs. Abram would have been considered Pagan as a believer in his fathers religion from beyond the rivers. In Ur they worshiped the mood God. "The great ziggurat of Ur was built by Ur-Nammu around 2100 BC and was dedicated to Nanna, the moon god."
Judaism culls from many beliefs, traditions and practices common in Mesopotamia. Human sacrifice and animal sacrifice was common among what would be considered Pagan beliefs. Obviously Abraham still had the belief of sacrificing the first born.
Anyway, some have tried to claim that Jesus is a creation of the Pagans, others namely Robert Sarmast of Iranian decent, proposes that the Son of God incarnate fashioned his entire life around common themes that would make his story more appealing to the world outside of Judaism so that when his messengers went out from Jerusalem they had a familiar story. I believe it's the latter, the divine brilliance of Jesus set the stage for the rejection by Abrahams descendants and the reception by the new messengers.
The Jews lost their way and have become blinded by their own nationalist egos.
The question was who came first, Christ or pagans.
Let's say for the sake of discussion that pagans are humans. If that's true then Christ came first because he created humans.
Pagans are simply unbelievers and unbelievers are not a problem for God. He has a resurrection just for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. (Revelation 20:12 NKJV)
We should keep in mind that salvation is by grace through faith, not by works.
iouae
Well-known member
You make good points. You must post more often.
One can find paganism in everything, including the days of the week, and the names of the months. One of the worst things to do is read Hyslop's "Two Babylons". He will point out how every custom in the world is pagan, even throwing rice at weddings, the cross, Xmas etc.
There are a lot of things I do consider "pagan" and avoid these, but fewer than before. For instance, my child has never celebrated a birthday because I (mistakenly) considered it pagan. Now we still don't celebrate birthdays because it is so ingrained. If I had it over, I would celebrate birthdays.
I also don't celebrate Xmas, but this I still believe in not doing.
I am sure God will guide you as to where to draw the line.
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
Wrong. The one and only true God Y-H-W-H created humans.
You should keep in mind that that is only Christian theology to make Christianity really simple and attractive for the pagans.
Your NT teaches something different: "14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[d] works, and I will show you my faith by my[e] works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[f] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[g] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."
James 2
I guess they don't teach you this in Sunday school.
lain:"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15
Apple7
New member
Ben Masada
New member
Shalom Elia, you say above that "Yeshua the Messiah was born nowhere but..." Tell me. Yeshua the Messiah! Do you believe that Yeshua was the Messiah or you are only using the Christian language to make a point? I apologize beforehand if I am wrong to even ask the question.
Maybe hannukah is pagan ? :idunno:
Oh, I was making a comparison between Judaism, the Pagan mysteries and the original Gospel of Jesus.
Oh, that makes sense ? Not celebrating the birth of your Lord and Savior. Plus no kids birthdays, wow. Jehova ?
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
Does it make sense to do that on a pagan holiday that was for sure not the birthday of your savior?
That is of course just continuing the ancient paganism.
"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction. The Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say: “Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.”"
Jer 16:19
iouae
Well-known member
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
That is Christian theology. It doesn't get any easier; you don't have to do anything, you only have to believe, and you'll be saved.
But that is not what the NT teaches:
"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Matt 5
And that's what James said:
"What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[d] works, and I will show you my faith by my[e] works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[f] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[g] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."
James 2
"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15