ECT The "Sending" of Jesus to Israel

I

Interplanner

Well-known member
I think I have found the last 'velcro' hook that has people thinking there is something to 2P2P. It is in this quote, and then I respond:


Act 3:19 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out,
Act 3:20 that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus,

Jesus has not returned


That sending was not the 2nd coming in judgement, nor a theocracy for Israel. I think we can finally get to some communication here: that sending was the same refreshing times mission that Israel was supposed to be to the world, the light to the nations through the Gospel.

The worst thing about 2P2P is that the mission to the nations through the Gospel has been driven over and disfigured, like Tsaernov in PATRIOT DAY. It has been bludgeoned beyond recognition. The throb of a Davidic theocracy was never stopped in these guys heads and they think it, not the kingdom of the Gospel, is awaiting Israel, no matter how silent the NT (the AAL) is about it.

My mistake: I forgot to review v22's "For..." This is a critical connector in Peter's reasoning. It means "For (this reason)..."

That reason was the quote from Deut 18, the warning to hear Christ.

That is the reason why Christ was being sent (and the type of sending) here. It is not 1st or 2nd comings, it is warning Israel about their mission to the nations.
 
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northwye

New member
"Repent ye therefore and turn that your sins may be be done away when the time of refreshing commeth which we shall have of the presence of the Lord
and when God shall send him which before was preached unto you that is to wit Jesus Christ." Acts 3: 19-20 Tyndale NT

A key phrase is: τον προκεκηρυγμενον υμιν - him who was before proclaimed to you.
προκεκηρυγμενον is a form of Strong's number 4206,

Luke then quotes Deuteronomy 18: 15 in Acts 3: 22. Acts 3: 22-23 says " "For Moses said unto the Fathers: A Prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you you even of your brethren like unto me: him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 For the time will come that every soul which shall not hear that same Prophet shall be destroyed from among the people."

The quote from Deuteronomy 18: is an indication that this is a prophetic revelation of the first appearance of Jesus Christ, not his second appearing.

Luke in Acts 3: 22-23 says " For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."

What is Luke quoting from in Acts 3: 23?

"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him." King James Version for Deuteronomy 18: 19, from the Masoretic Text.

"And whatever man shall not hearken to whatsoever words that prophet shall speak in my name, I will take vengeance on him." Septuagint for Deuteronomy 18: 19
 
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I

Interplanner

Well-known member
northwye said:
"Repent ye therefore and turn that your sins may be be done away when the time of refreshing commeth which we shall have of the presence of the Lord
and when God shall send him which before was preached unto you that is to wit Jesus Christ." Acts 3: 19-20 Tyndale NT

A key phrase is: τον προκεκηρυγμενον υμιν - him who was before proclaimed to you.
προκεκηρυγμενον is a form of Strong's number 4206,

Luke then quotes Deuteronomy 18: 15 in Acts 3: 22. Acts 3: 22-23 says " "For Moses said unto the Fathers: A Prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you you even of your brethren like unto me: him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 For the time will come that every soul which shall not hear that same Prophet shall be destroyed from among the people."

The quote from Deuteronomy 18: is an indication that this is a prophetic revelation of the first appearance of Jesus Christ, not his second appearing.

Luke in Acts 3: 22-23 says " For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."

What is Luke quoting from in Acts 3: 23?

"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him." King James Version for Deuteronomy 18: 19, from the Masoretic Text.

"And whatever man shall not hearken to whatsoever words that prophet shall speak in my name, I will take vengeance on him." Septuagint for Deuteronomy 18: 19
Click to expand...



Yes indeed, the 1st coming.
 
D

Danoh

New member
You two knuckleheads confuse Peter's point that his miracle was evidence that the man they had crucified (Jesus) had been that Prophet that Moses had spoken of, had risen from the dead, had enabled the miracle Peter had performed, was going to return, and those who were not right with Him upon His return, would be cut off from His people.

Note: said return later interrupted by God "for a season."
 
N

northwye

New member
Because Acts 19-23 is a prophecy about the First Appearance of Christ, does not mean that there is no Second Appearance of Christ as a prophetic revelation.

Look at a few NT prophecies on the Second Coming.

Matthew 25: 31: "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

.Acts 1`: 11: "Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."

Jude 1: 14 "And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,"

Revelation 1: 7: "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

Luke 21 28: "And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh."

When Christ appears the second time, he will redeem the elect, or raise them up.

So, the statements of Christ in John 6 about raising his people up at the last day mean also that he will appear at the last day.

"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6: 39-40

I will raise him up at the last day is repeated in John 8: 44, 54 and in John 11: 24 Martha says she knows that Lazarus will be raised at he last day.

But Full Preterism teaches that the Second Appearance of Christ is to be interpreted as a "return" of God in judgment upon Old Covenant Israel shown by the physical destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in AD 70 by the Roman Army. The scriptures just discussed above - Luke 21: 28 and John 6 - create a big problem for full preterism, because redemption is dependent on the Second Appearing of Jesus Christ.

Preterism is another church theology imposed by postulation upon the prophetic revelations of Jesus Christ, and not derived consistently from scriptures.

https://bible.org/seriespage/3-second-coming-christ-new-testament

I happened to come across this in a Google Search for the topic here.

This is on the Second Coming of Christ by Christian Zionist John F. Walvoord in which he says one purpose of the second appearance of Christ is "To re-establish the Davidic kingdom. In the discussion of the relation of Israel to Gentiles in the present age in the council at Jerusalem, it was brought out by James in his quotation from Amos 9:11-12, and other Old Testament predictions, that a future day was coming in which Israel would once again be restored. According to Amos, God has promised: “In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up its ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old” (Amos 9:11)."

Walvoord quotes Luke 1:31-33:: “He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Most High: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: and he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.”

James in Acts 15: 14-16 says "Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 16. After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down;
and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17. That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things."

James says nothing about Amos 9: 11-12 being about re-establishing the Old Covenant Davidic Kingdom. James says the prophets, not just Amos, but other prophets also, agree with Peter, that those OId Testament prophecies of a restoration of the of Israel, agree with Peter that God is now taking from the Gentiles a people for his name.

So, like the preterest, the Christian Zionist fails to agree with some New Testament scriptures.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
northwye said:
Because Acts 19-23 is a prophecy about the First Appearance of Christ, does not mean that there is no Second Appearance of Christ as a prophetic revelation.

Look at a few NT prophecies on the Second Coming.

Matthew 25: 31: "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

.Acts 1`: 11: "Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."

Jude 1: 14 "And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,"

Revelation 1: 7: "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

Luke 21 28: "And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh."

When Christ appears the second time, he will redeem the elect, or raise them up.

So, the statements of Christ in John 6 about raising his people up at the last day mean also that he will appear at the last day.

"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6: 39-40

I will raise him up at the last day is repeated in John 8: 44, 54 and in John 11: 24 Martha says she knows that Lazarus will be raised at he last day.

But Full Preterism teaches that the Second Appearance of Christ is to be interpreted as a "return" of God in judgment upon Old Covenant Israel shown by the physical destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in AD 70 by the Roman Army. The scriptures just discussed above - Luke 21: 28 and John 6 - create a big problem for full preterism, because redemption is dependent on the Second Appearing of Jesus Christ.

Preterism is another church theology imposed by postulation upon the prophetic revelations of Jesus Christ, and not derived consistently from scriptures.

https://bible.org/seriespage/3-second-coming-christ-new-testament

I happened to come across this in a Google Search for the topic here.

This is on the Second Coming of Christ by Christian Zionist John F. Walvoord in which he says one purpose of the second appearance of Christ is "To re-establish the Davidic kingdom. In the discussion of the relation of Israel to Gentiles in the present age in the council at Jerusalem, it was brought out by James in his quotation from Amos 9:11-12, and other Old Testament predictions, that a future day was coming in which Israel would once again be restored. According to Amos, God has promised: “In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up its ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old” (Amos 9:11)."

Walvoord quotes Luke 1:31-33:: “He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Most High: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: and he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.”

James in Acts 15: 14-16 says "Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 16. After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down;
and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17. That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things."

James says nothing about Amos 9: 11-12 being about re-establishing the Old Covenant Davidic Kingdom. James says the prophets, not just Amos, but other prophets also, agree with Peter, that those OId Testament prophecies of a restoration of the of Israel, agree with Peter that God is now taking from the Gentiles a people for his name.

So, like the preterest, the Christian Zionist fails to agree with some New Testament scriptures.
Click to expand...


Indeed. I'm a historian, not a Preterist.
 
D

Danoh

New member
Interplanner said:
Indeed. I'm a historian, not a Preterist.
Click to expand...

No you are not a historian.

Your so called history is from books about it coupled with your ever incompetent mishandling of that much.

You're a hysterian, is what you are.

And the fact is that much of what you hold to is Partial Preterist - you attempt to justify it as sound through this phony claim of yours that you are a historian.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
I think I have found the last 'velcro' hook that has people thinking there is something to 2P2P. It is in this quote, and then I respond:


Act 3:19 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out,
Act 3:20 that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus,

Jesus has not returned


That sending was not the 2nd coming in judgement, nor a theocracy for Israel. I think we can finally get to some communication here: that sending was the same refreshing times mission that Israel was supposed to be to the world, the light to the nations through the Gospel.

The worst thing about 2P2P is that the mission to the nations through the Gospel has been driven over and disfigured, like Tsaernov in PATRIOT DAY. It has been bludgeoned beyond recognition. The throb of a Davidic theocracy was never stopped in these guys heads and they think it, not the kingdom of the Gospel, is awaiting Israel, no matter how silent the NT (the AAL) is about it.
Click to expand...

:chuckle:

It's the 2nd coming.
Think, Mcfly, think.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
SaulToPaul said:
:chuckle:

It's the 2nd coming.
Think, Mcfly, think.
Click to expand...



No it can't be. Nor is it first. It is the appeal to Israel to be in the mission of the Gospel, to leave Judaism, to do what all the prophets said would be the mission to the nations, in many, many quotes.

That is why there is the sharp distinction when he says 'Heaven must recieve him...' which is a term of honor; heaven honors, celebrates him and then at the end of human time the whole earth is changed. (The honor doesn't stop, either).

But this sending belongs with the momentum of the quote from Deut 18. Israel was supposed to listen to Christ, and the appeal to listen him meant what the apostles were saying right there about the mission to bless all the nations. This has the same sense as 2:38. They could never undo the crucifixion; the question now was the undoing of Judaism and doing the Christian mission. Which is why Acts is about what it is about, and not about a land promise.

You need to go back to 2:30 where you derailed into 2P2P by mistake and leave it.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
No it can't be. Nor is it first. It is the appeal to Israel to be in the mission of the Gospel, to leave Judaism, to do what all the prophets said would be the mission to the nations, in many, many quotes.

That is why there is the sharp distinction when he says 'Heaven must recieve him...' which is a term of honor; heaven honors, celebrates him and then at the end of human time the whole earth is changed. (The honor doesn't stop, either).

But this sending belongs with the momentum of the quote from Deut 18. Israel was supposed to listen to Christ, and the appeal to listen him meant what the apostles were saying right there about the mission to bless all the nations. This has the same sense as 2:38. They could never undo the crucifixion; the question now was the undoing of Judaism and doing the Christian mission. Which is why Acts is about what it is about, and not about a land promise.

You need to go back to 2:30 where you derailed into 2P2P by mistake and leave it.
Click to expand...

:chuckle:
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
SaulToPaul said:
:chuckle:
Click to expand...


He clearly meant basically the same thing as Dt 18. This means, like mt 23, the radical departure from Judaism, and I notice you guys hug it pretty closely. But you have this problem with I Peter 1:18, which is about Judaism, too. Your 'alternate' gospel is judaistic. your eschatology is heavily Judaistic. That's what 2P2P does to people.

The sending was to get the mission accomplished, because the restitution of everything waits til the end of time. The mission takes the place of your theocracy, which was a mistaken Judaistic concept all along.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
My mistake: I forgot to review v22's "For..." This is a critical connector in Peter's reasoning. It means "For (this reason)..."

That reason was the quote from Deut 18, the warning to hear Christ.

That is the reason why Christ was being sent (and the type of sending) here. It is not 1st or 2nd comings, it is warning Israel about their mission to the nations.
 
N

northwye

New member
The warning in Deuteronomy 18: 19 in the English version of the Masoretic Text is somewhat ambiguous, "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him." It is a warning, but the consequences of not heeding the words of Christ is not made clear.

The English translation of the Septuagint for Deuteronomy 18: 19 says "And whatever man shall not hearken to whatsoever words that prophet shall speak in my name, I will take vengeance on him. "

And Luke's version in Acts 3: 23 is a clear warning of dire consequences for rejecting the words of Christ, "For the time will come that every soul which shall not hear that same Prophet shall be destroyed from among the people." Tyndale NT

Paul says in Romans 11: 17-19, "Though some of the branches be broken off and thou being a wild olive
tree art grafted in among them and made partaker of ye root and fatness of the olive tree
18 boast not thy self against the branches. For if thou boast thy self remember that thou bearist not the root but the root thee
19 Thou wilt say then: the branches are broken off that I might be grafted in."

Paul is saying in Romans 11: 17-19, in metaphoric language, that those of Old Covenant Israel who rejected Christ when he appeared in the flesh of man were cut off, agreeing with Luke in Chapter Three, verse 23 of Acts.

Deuteronomy 18: 19, in Luke's version seen in Acts 3: 23, is a very important warning about the4 consequences to those of Old Covenant Israel for rejecting Jesus Christ. And remember what Jesus said to the Pharisees in John 8: 44, " Ye are of your Father the devil and the lusts of your Father ye will follow. He was a murderer from the beginning and abode not in the truth because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie then speaketh he of his own. For he is a liar and the father thereof."

"Ye serpents and generation of vipers how should ye escape ye damnation of hell?.........Behold your habitation shall be left unto you desolate." Matthew 23: 33, 38
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
He clearly meant basically the same thing as Dt 18. This means, like mt 23, the radical departure from Judaism, and I notice you guys hug it pretty closely. But you have this problem with I Peter 1:18, which is about Judaism, too. Your 'alternate' gospel is judaistic. your eschatology is heavily Judaistic. That's what 2P2P does to people.

The sending was to get the mission accomplished, because the restitution of everything waits til the end of time. The mission takes the place of your theocracy, which was a mistaken Judaistic concept all along.
Click to expand...

Matthew 10:23 (KJV)
 
way 2 go

way 2 go

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
He meant people who think everything about the 2nd coming was in 70 AD.

Not me.
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knowing your a preterist or partial preterist still explains to everyone your view
it is like knowing your talking to a jehovah witness
we use the same words but you filter everything through preterism
 
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