ECT The operation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

[Jacob]

Is it possible for a believer to speak in a language he or she does not know, whether possible at some time in the past for some believer or possible for a believer in the present day to have this gift and do so?

There is an imitation gift I hear practiced by those who do not know God, but in asking what is the real gift first is there one (can a believer in time since the coming of the Holy Spirit (and a question on if this has ended or ceased at some point in history or if it can be present now in anyone) speak in a language they don't know, this being supernatural meaning by the Holy Spirit) and second if this gift as stated or defined does exist how do we know when what is being practiced is not the gift. We have to know if there is a true before we can know if there is a false, but at the same time a false religion cannot rightly have something called tongues or speaking in tongues whether parroted or merely ecstatic utterances (be there a false gift) because the individuals do not have the Holy Spirit. You cannot have the Holy Spirit and not be a believer. But a person who practices something called tongues or seen to be tongues is not necessarily a believer with the Holy Spirit dwelling/living inside of them.

If tongues is a sign but not for the believer, and yet tongues can only be practiced by the believer... if it is a legitimate gift it needs defined, and here we already have an idea of what we are looking for though maybe from the false gift?, then tongues (speaking in a language not your own or not your native tongue, whether supernaturally or not?) though it theoretically can indicate someone else (the one speaking) is a believer (we need to understand the Spirit of God not sign gifts) be there true interpretation from God by someone with the gift of interpretation, it is not for self-verification of one's belief in God or of the Spirit residing in one's self.

It is possible to learn another language. Can this be real, and yet in an individual something with legitimate Biblically supported meaning can be spoken when a person is moved or led by the Holy Spirit to do so?

If we know there is a false gift or something false that is not a gift at all, can we identify if this is a language gift beyond the natural? For tongues seems to be Biblically spoken of as a gift of the Holy Spirit, and yet we do not know if it is for today (though we do know it is a sign unto the unbeliever).

 

[Jacob]

The point is not tongues as a gift, but the gifting of the Holy Spirit in various ways and the method of sharing the truth with others in love, whether fellow believers in fellowship or unbelievers which means those who are outside the faith. The Spirit of God works in believers but not always in the same way but never divorced from the love of God. Meaning, we love out of what God has given us by which to love.

 

[Jacob]

Not all those who claim to have a gift have it. It is not required to have a particular gift to know you have the Holy Spirit. If you have the Holy Spirit you are gifted by the Holy Spirit with that gift, and not for yourself whether you know at the present time what gift you have or not.

The Spirit of God dwells in believers in Jesus as the Christ, the Messiah, by faith. to be born again and therefore have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you by faith is a work of God. You may never speak in tongues and yet still have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you and a gift (at least one) of the Holy Spirit.

 

[God's Truth]

You are putting several aside and harping on only one. That is what the Unitarians do when they only show the scriptures that proclaim Christ's manhood and ignore other scripture.

Your view is lop-sided.

I don't put any scripture aside.

 

[God's Truth]

Prophecy does serve those who believe. Those who don't believe in prophecy aren't to be counted as believers, IMHO,

You are not being humble like you claim.

There are no new prophecies. The Bible is finished and closed.

since most of The Holy Scriptures are prophecy and many of which are yet to be fulfilled. God has declared to His prophets that His Mystery will one day be revealed and I believe He will do so through His prophets and those who believe in prophecy. I prophesy and will do so as directed, until He says to stop. Putting His Gifts aside due to un-belief is foolishness.

What do you prophecy? You do not even know that I am saved. What kind of prophet are you?

 

[Aimiel]

There are no new prophecies. The Bible is finished and closed.

If there were no new prophecies, God wouldn't be able to send His Two Witnesses:

And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

These two prophets will be broadcast on CNN, MSNBC and all the other news networks, I'm sure. God gives prophecy every single day, to His people and to His Prophets and His Apostles and even oftentimes to His Pastors, Evangelists and Teachers.

What do you prophecy?

Whatever The Holy Spirit gives me to speak or whatever He actually speaks, using my members.

You do not even know that I am saved.

Did you want me to prophesy? Are you going to put a bag over my head and punch me, then tell me to prophesy who hit me next?

What kind of prophet are you?

There's only one kind of New Testament Prophet that I know of, although there seem to be many who are better trained than others and many who are homeless or indigent.

Why do you disobey Paul's command (below)?

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

God's Mystery is not complete. When it is, all will hear and know ALL Truth. Until then: we live in darkness, shrouded by God's Mystery in a fallen world.

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

 

[God's Truth]

If there were no new prophecies, God wouldn't be able to send His Two Witnesses:

And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

These two prophets will be broadcast on CNN, MSNBC and all the other news networks, I'm sure.

So then, do you think you and your church are the witnesses?

God gives prophecy every single day, to His people and to His Prophets and His Apostles and even oftentimes to His Pastors, Evangelists and Teachers.Whatever The Holy Spirit gives me to speak or whatever He actually speaks, using my members.Did you want me to prophesy? Are you going to put a bag over my head and punch me, then tell me to prophesy who hit me next?There's only one kind of New Testament Prophet that I know of, although there seem to be many who are better trained than others and many who are homeless or indigent.

I still don't get it. What do you prophecy about? What have you prophesied about?

Why do you disobey Paul's command (below)?

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

That was Paul speaking during the laying of the foundation when tongues and prophecy was needed and given.

God's Mystery is not complete. When it is, all will hear and know ALL Truth. Until then: we live in darkness, shrouded by God's Mystery in a fallen world.

Are you kidding? We do not live in darkness if we live through the Spirit.

The mystery has been revealed.

Ephesians 1:9 when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose

Ephesians 1:10 for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him.

Ephesians 6:19 Pray also for me, that whenever I open my mouth, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel,

Romans 16:25 Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past,

Ephesians 3:3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly.

Ephesians 3:4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,

Ephesians 3:9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

Colossians 4:3 And pray for us, too, that God may open a door for our message, so that we may proclaim the mystery of Christ, for which I am in chains.

Acts 20:20 You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful to you but have taught you publicly and from house to house.

Acts 20:27 For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God.


The scriptures say the mystery has been revealed BUT YOU SAY it has not all been revealed...tell me a new mystery, or one that you have heard from someone in your church.

 

[Aimiel]

So then, do you think you and your church are the witnesses?

Of course not. When they come along, they will identify themselves and (for born again Christians) their identity will be without doubt.

I still don't get it. What do you prophecy about? What have you prophesied about?

Words God gave me.

That was Paul speaking during the laying of the foundation when tongues and prophecy was needed and given.

Yes and The Lord will continue to build upon the foundation (Christ) using the stones of revelation knowledge that He builds with until we all come in the unity of The Faith into The Knowledge of The Son of God unto a Mature Man: Christ Jesus; supplanted by that which EVERY joint supplies.

Are you kidding? We do not live in darkness if we live through the Spirit.

Let us walk in The Light, but whether you realize it or not, we do live in a darkened world. Anywhere that God is not visible is DARKNESS.

The mystery has been revealed.

Um, no. His Mystery is NOT YET FINISHED. There are parts of Daniel, Revelation and MANY other prophecies which are still mystery. God will unveil His Mystery when He's good and ready.

Ephesians 1:9 when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose

Ephesians 1:10 for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him.

Ephesians 6:19 Pray also for me, that whenever I open my mouth, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel,

Romans 16:25 Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past,

Ephesians 3:3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly.

Ephesians 3:4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,

Ephesians 3:9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

Colossians 4:3 And pray for us, too, that God may open a door for our message, so that we may proclaim the mystery of Christ, for which I am in chains.

Acts 20:20 You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful to you but have taught you publicly and from house to house.

Acts 20:27 For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God.


The scriptures say the mystery has been revealed BUT YOU SAY it has not all been revealed...tell me a new mystery, or one that you have heard from someone in your church.

When God decides to lift the veil of mystery that lies upon men, there will be no more need for prophecy, knowledge, tongues and the like, for all men will see and know Him as Lord and God. Until that day, He has these gifts in place to give us guidance when He decides to and can do His Will, even when un-believers like yourself say that He can't.

God doesn't do parlour tricks, so please stop tempting Him.

 

[God's Truth]

Of course not. When they come along, they will identify themselves and (for born again Christians) their identity will be without doubt.

Since you know that you and your church are not the witnesses, why would you use the scriptures about the witnesses to defend you and your church prophesying?

Words God gave me.

What words have God given you? Why won’t you give me an example?

Yes and The Lord will continue to build upon the foundation (Christ) using the stones of revelation knowledge that He builds with until we all come in the unity of The Faith into The Knowledge of The Son of God unto a Mature Man: Christ Jesus; supplanted by that which EVERY joint supplies.

That is not scriptural. The scriptures say the foundation has BEEN BUILT.


Ephesians 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.

Let us walk in The Light, but whether you realize it or not, we do live in a darkened world. Anywhere that God is not visible is DARKNESS.

That is not what you said before. We have the words of God Himself in the Holy Bible. Again, what words are you prophesying from God?

Um, no. His Mystery is NOT YET FINISHED. There are parts of Daniel, Revelation and MANY other prophecies which are still mystery. God will unveil His Mystery when He's good and ready.

I gave you many scriptures that say the mystery has been revealed.

When God decides to lift the veil of mystery that lies upon men, there will be no more need for prophecy, knowledge, tongues and the like, for all men will see and know Him as Lord and God. Until that day, He has these gifts in place to give us guidance when He decides to and can do His Will, even when un-believers like yourself say that He can't.

God doesn't do parlour tricks, so please stop tempting Him.

Stop making up things about me that I did not say.

That is called bearing false witness.

As for you saying, “When God decides to lift the veil of the mystery upon men…”, that goes against what the PROPHETS already spoke of in the HOLY BIBLE. God does not decide to lift the veil! When people turn to Christ the veil is lifted.

2 Corinthians 3:16.

Do you see now that you have proven yourself to be a false prophet?

 

[Aimiel]

Since you know that you and your church are not the witnesses, why would you use the scriptures about the witnesses to defend you and your church prophesying?

I didn't. I merely wanted to point out to you that prophecy is NOT 'done,' as you stated.

What words have God given you? Why won’t you give me an example?

That just isn't how God operates. He doesn't do parlour tricks.

That is not scriptural. The scriptures say the foundation has BEEN BUILT.

I never said it wasn't. I did say that prophecy is still a part of the Christian walk.

I gave you many scriptures that say the mystery has been revealed.

God's Mystery has not been revealed or knowledge would cease. Obviously, it hasn't. Neither has prophecy or tongues. When His Mystery is revealed, we will all know Him, see Him and be 'like' Him, because we'll see Him as He is. We won't have to study or ask any questions, since we will know God in our hearts and minds FULLY, just as we are known.

As for you saying, “When God decides to lift the veil of the mystery upon men…”, that goes against what the PROPHETS already spoke of in the HOLY BIBLE.

No, it doesn't. You simply have a darkened corner of understanding of His Word in your mind.

God does not decide to lift the veil! When people turn to Christ the veil is lifted.

No, we come into a relationship with Him, our spirit is renewed, our heart is changed and He begins His Work upon our fallen mind bringing us into a closer relationship with Him every day in every way (as we allow). If we had no veil between us and God, we'd all be able to see Him, clearly, know Him in our hearts and minds completely and never do anything wrong. The Body of Christ would have finished this job centuries ago.

Do you see now that you have proven yourself to be a false prophet?

Nope. I do see where your problem lies: you've fallen for the error of God being thought of as a liar, when He said that He gives good gifts to His Children. Paul said we are to covet to prophesy. We have God's gifts available to us, but He won't force them down your throat, if you don't want them. You seem to have a 'form' of Godliness, but deny The Power Thereof. :nono:

 

[God's Truth]

I didn't. I merely wanted to point out to you that prophecy is NOT 'done,' as you stated.That just isn't how God operates. He doesn't do parlour tricks.I never said it wasn't. I did say that prophecy is still a part of the Christian walk.God's Mystery has not been revealed or knowledge would cease. Obviously, it hasn't. Neither has prophecy or tongues. When His Mystery is revealed, we will all know Him, see Him and be 'like' Him, because we'll see Him as He is. We won't have to study or ask any questions, since we will know God in our hearts and minds FULLY, just as we are known.No, it doesn't. You simply have a darkened corner of understanding of His Word in your mind.No, we come into a relationship with Him, our spirit is renewed, our heart is changed and He begins His Work upon our fallen mind bringing us into a closer relationship with Him every day in every way (as we allow). If we had no veil between us and God, we'd all be able to see Him, clearly, know Him in our hearts and minds completely and never do anything wrong. The Body of Christ would have finished this job centuries ago. Nope. I do see where your problem lies: you've fallen for the error of God being thought of as a liar, when He said that He gives good gifts to His Children. Paul said we are to covet to prophesy. We have God's gifts available to us, but He won't force them down your throat, if you don't want them. You seem to have a 'form' of Godliness, but deny The Power Thereof. :nono:

You do not want to give an example of your prophecies. I think you do not because you know it is worthless towards salvation.
There is no prophecies, tongues, and new knowledge because the mystery has been revealed, the sign, and the prophecies have been given. The veil is removed when someone turns to Christ in faith.
You go against what is plainly written.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

You do not want to give an example of your prophecies. I think you do not because you know it is worthless towards salvation.
There is no prophecies, tongues, and new knowledge because the mystery has been revealed, the sign, and the prophecies have been given. The veil is removed when someone turns to Christ in faith.
You go against what is plainly written.

Eph 1:15 Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints,
Eph 1:16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers:
Eph 1:17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him,
Eph 1:18 the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
Eph 1:19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power Eph 1:20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,

LA

 

[God's Truth]

Eph 1:15 Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints,
Eph 1:16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers:
Eph 1:17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him,
Eph 1:18 the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
Eph 1:19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power Eph 1:20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,

LA

Jesus reveals himself to those who obey him.

That is not prophecy, new knowledge, and tongues.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Jesus reveals himself to those who obey him.

That is not prophecy, new knowledge, and tongues.

It is however newly revealed knowledge, which Paul say one needs to obtain---

Eph 1:15 Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints,
Eph 1:16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers:
Eph 1:17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him,
Eph 1:18 the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
Eph 1:19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power
Eph 1:20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,

Eph 3:16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man,
Eph 3:17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
Eph 3:18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height—
Eph 3:19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
Eph 3:20 Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,
Eph 3:21 to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.

LA

 

[God's Truth]

It is however newly revealed knowledge, which Paul say one needs to obtain---

It is a revelation, new to the believer, but not to God's Truth as written.

You are mixing different scriptures and different topics.

 

[Aimiel]

You do not want to give an example of your prophecies. I think you do not because you know it is worthless towards salvation.

Think what you want. I believe God's Word and have seen Him perform many miracles through propehcy.

There is no prophecies, tongues, and new knowledge because the mystery has been revealed, the sign, and the prophecies have been given.

So you keep saying, only Scripture doesn't say what you've presumed It does.

The veil is removed when someone turns to Christ in faith. You go against what is plainly written.

I know you do, but what do I do?

 

[God's Truth]

Think what you want.

You are the one who will not give an example of prophecies used by your church today.

I believe God's Word and have seen Him perform many miracles through propehcy.So you keep saying, only Scripture doesn't say what you've presumed It does.I know you do, but what do I do?

I gave you scripture about the veil, and you speak against it.

 

[Jacob]

Prophecy involves telling the truth. It does not always pertain to the future or and certainly not telling the future. We ought to learn from God about that which is to come.

 

[Psalmist]

Prophecy involves telling the truth. It does not always pertain to the future or and certainly not telling the future. We ought to learn from God about that which is to come.

As I understand it...

Foretelling vs. Forth Telling

Foretelling: Having insight from the Holy Spirit into a situation beforehand and declaring it.

Forth Telling: Having prophetic insight from the Holy Spirit about something that has already happened or is occurring at the present, and declaring it.​

​

 

[Aimiel]

You are the one who will not give an example of prophecies used by your church today.

This is the third and last time I'm answering you: God doesn't do parlour tricks.

I gave you scripture about the veil, and you speak against it.

No, I stated that your understanding of those scriptures is presumptuous. Tossing out prophets and apostles is just as foolish as tossing out pastors, teachers or evangelists. Thinking that God has 'done away' with prophecy due to misunderstanding Scripture is not a good thing. You need to read The Bible without your denomination telling you what It means beforehand.