The New Covenant proves Christ is God

musterion

Well-known member
Therefore Christ is the mediator of a new diatheke, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, now that He has died to redeem them from the transgressions committed under the first diatheke. For where a diatheke is, there must also of necessity be the death of the one who made it. For a diatheke is in force after men are dead, since it is of not in force at all while the testator lives.
Hebrews 9:16-17

[diatheke: a will, testament, covenant.]

As will a human will and testament, Hebrews tells us that for the New Covenant to be in force it must first be proved that the one who made it has died.

Who does the Bible say would make the New Covenant with Israel?

“Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD. “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it. I will be their God and they shall be My people.
Jeremiah 31:31-33

Who led Israel out of Egypt and made the Old covenant with them?

God did.

Who said He would make a New covenant with Israel, just as He had made the Old?

God did.

But the one who makes a covenant has to die for it to be in force.

Who died?

Christ did.

Is a father's will and testament in force if his son dies?

No. The one who MADE the will must die for his will to be in force.


Therefore, Christ is God.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hebrews 9:16-17

[diatheke: a will, testament, covenant.]

As will a human will and testament, Hebrews tells us that for the New Covenant to be in force it must first be proved that the one who made it has died.

Who does the Bible say would make the New Covenant with Israel?

Jeremiah 31:31-33

Who led Israel out of Egypt and made the Old covenant with them?

God did.

Who said He would make a New covenant with Israel, just as He had made the Old?

God did.

But the one who makes a covenant has to die for it to be in force.

Who died?

Christ did.

Is a father's will and testament in force if his son dies?

No. The one who MADE the will must die for his will to be in force.


Therefore, Christ is God.

Ever heard of the little word IN.

2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

LA
 

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
Ever heard of the little word IN.

2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

LA

I said
Jesus said He wasn't God when He made this statement. Jesus said the Father is the only true God.

Jhn 17:1

Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,

Jhn 17:2

“as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.

Jhn 17:3

“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
 

musterion

Well-known member
I said
Jesus said He wasn't God when He made this statement. Jesus said the Father is the only true God.

Jhn 17:1

Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,

Jhn 17:2

“as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.

Jhn 17:3

“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Deal with Hebrews.
 

musterion

Well-known member
Ever heard of the little word IN.

2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

LA

Deal with Hebrews.
 

Interplanner

New member
Hebrews 9:16-17

[diatheke: a will, testament, covenant.]

As will a human will and testament, Hebrews tells us that for the New Covenant to be in force it must first be proved that the one who made it has died.

Who does the Bible say would make the New Covenant with Israel?

Jeremiah 31:31-33

Who led Israel out of Egypt and made the Old covenant with them?

God did.

Who said He would make a New covenant with Israel, just as He had made the Old?

God did.

But the one who makes a covenant has to die for it to be in force.

Who died?

Christ did.

Is a father's will and testament in force if his son dies?

No. The one who MADE the will must die for his will to be in force.


Therefore, Christ is God.




Likewise, that is proof that it is in effect now, and other passages are proof that it is in effect for all who believe. That is why Eph 2B speaks of being cut off from the promises of the covenant, but now part of it by faith. Not about something in the land of Israel, which is irrelevant any more, but about the promise of the Spirit so that the mission of the Gospel can be accomplished, Gal 3.
 

Interplanner

New member
Deal with Hebrews.



You don't, Must. You have this separate doctrine only because the vision has the one line matching Israel and Judah. Yet the same passage has the LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS , the power of the Spirit over sin and providing knowledge of the Lord, which is true for all believers, the thing is in effect now, etc, because the "new" was always merely part of the "eternal" which is not true of the old covenant.

You don't do Hebrews properly.
 

musterion

Well-known member
You don't, Must. You have this separate doctrine only because the vision has the one line matching Israel and Judah. Yet the same passage has the LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS , the power of the Spirit over sin and providing knowledge of the Lord, which is true for all believers, the thing is in effect now, etc, because the "new" was always merely part of the "eternal" which is not true of the old covenant.

You don't do Hebrews properly.

I'm taking it exactly as it lays.

You're the one who doesn't actually believe it.
 

Interplanner

New member
I'm taking it exactly as it lays.

You're the one who doesn't actually believe it.




Why would 99% of what is offered in the new covenant be the same goods as available for all believers, but one line throws everything off in to a monarchy for God-knows-why?
 

musterion

Well-known member
Why would 99% of what is offered in the new covenant be the same goods as available for all believers, but one line throws everything off in to a monarchy for God-knows-why?

1. Hebrews states that the one initiating a diatheke has to die for it to go into effect.

2. Hebrews quotes prophecy to state that God initiated the New diatheke with Israel, just as He'd initiated the Old diatheke with Israel.

3. Hebrews reminds us, in the context of the New diatheke, that Christ is the One that died.

That is what it says.

Are you just stupidly arguing against things you don't believe, or do you have a problem with one of those three points? Because if you try to derail this thread I will ask the mods to remove you.
 

musterion

Well-known member
No problem with those point, only that that is not all that Hebrews is about, nor is it only for them, because so many features of the new covenant are for all people.

1. GOD HIMSELF SAID HE WOULD MAKE IT WITH ISRAEL.

2. Don't you DARE come here trying to preach what you think the Bible says when 90% of your posts ridicule those who practice literal interpretation.

3. I asked you not to go off-topic but you persist.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
1. Hebrews states that the one initiating a diatheke has to die for it to go into effect.

Jesus died, God did not.

Jesus became a vessel for God, the Temple of God for His dwelling place.

2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2. Hebrews quotes prophecy to state that God initiated the New diatheke with Israel, just as He'd initiated the Old diatheke with Israel.

The elect of Israel became the NT church, into which we are joined by the blood of Christ, so that all the elect of all peoples are Gods Israel.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:


3. Hebrews reminds us, in the context of the New diatheke, that Christ is the One that died.

That is what it says.

Yes because Jesus was the word made flesh.

Whatever they did and do with the Son is the same as doing to the Father of Him.

Mat 10:40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.


LA
 

dodge

New member
Lazy afternoon;4981806]Jesus died, God did not.

Jesus became a vessel for God, the Temple of God for His dwelling place.

Jhn 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Jhn 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.


Jesus was born a man and remains a man, now resurrected and in the Fathers Glorious presence in Heaven.

He who came down from Heaven is the Holy Spirit of God in which Jesus was living in, though he be not in the third Heaven at the time.

People did not know that when Jesus was saying the Kingdom of Heaven was near, that He was saying it was present near them at the time.

as it was shown to be here--

Mar 5:24 And Jesus went with him; and much people followed him, and thronged him.
Mar 5:25 And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years,
Mar 5:26 And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse,
Mar 5:27 When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment.
Mar 5:28 For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole.
Mar 5:29 And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague.
Mar 5:30 And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes?
Mar 5:31 And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?
Mar 5:32 And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing.
Mar 5:33 But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.
Mar 5:34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

just look up "touched"

LA
 

Interplanner

New member
Be careful LA and Dodge, this is a trick thread to ban you. He will say that if you disagree with him that the covenant was with Israel, you are derailing the thread and will ban you like he did me, or else he is totally inconsistent.

Nevermind that it was between God and Christ, or that there is another Israel that it could be about, or that most NT passages about the new covenant are about it as an opportunity to all peoples.
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
if you disagree with him that the covenant was with Israel,
Disagreeing that the covenant was with Israel would be disagreeing with scripture.


Nevermind that it was between God and Christ,
GOD and Israel.


or that there is another Israel that it could be about,
It's about the same Israel it has always been about, the same Israel that the old covenant was made with.


most NT passages about the new covenant are about it as an opportunity to all peoples.
Through Israel.


Jeremiah 31:31-32 KJV
(31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
(32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Which the NT confirms.

Hebrews 8:7-9 KJV
(7) For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
(8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
(9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.



BTW, the old covenant was for the same Israel as the new covenant.
Both covenants were made to the same people.

No baiting required to agree with scripture.
 

musterion

Well-known member
Be careful LA and Dodge, this is a trick thread to ban you. He will say that if you disagree with him that the covenant was with Israel, you are derailing the thread and will ban you like he did me, or else he is totally inconsistent.

That is a lie. Anyone can disagree on this point all the live long day. It's when YOU come into a thread trying to talk about your idiotic 2P30 complaint OVER AND OVER AGAIN, that it's derailing.
 
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