The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !

[beloved57]

More on Jn 3:16

More on Jn 3:16

Now lets look at Jn 15:18-19

18If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

19If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

In these Two verses the word world is used several times but it is limited to the meaning of those who persecuted them who stood for the Truth ! The word is never used here as all mankind without exception !

 

[beloved57]

Now John 17:9

Now John 17:9

Lets look at the word world [kosmos] in John 17:9

9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

The world here surely does not mean the same as it does in Jn 3:16, why would Christ deny it to be the object of His Intercession and Prayer ?

The world here are all those among mankind that do not belong to God, yes He is still their Creator, but He is not their Covenant God, they belong to the wicked one, the Devil, and they were never given to Christ in Election as His Sheep. The world in Jn 3:16 is the World that God gave to the Son as in those He prays for in Jn 17:9 " those thou hast given me"

So, those God the Father has given the Son which the Son does Pray for is a World Jn 3:16 and those whom the Father hath not given the Son which the Son does not Pray for as in Jn 17:9 is a world.

 

[beloved57]

Lets look at Rom 1:8

Lets look at Rom 1:8

We are looking at the different ways the word world is used , and exposing the negligence of all those who render Jn 3:16, as meaning that God there is being said to Love all men without exception, when the verse does not say that, its a lie !

Rom 1:8

8First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

This actually is more of what John 3:16 means, that God Loved men and women throughout the whole world.

Now here in Rom 1:8 the word world would be limited to the Roman Empire or that region. People in Egypt at that time could care less about their Faith in Christ Jesus and probably never heard of Him. It is even doubtful that every single individual without exception in the Roman Empire is even included in this statement !


Lets look at also Rom 11:12

12Now if the fall of them[ Ethnic Israel] be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

The word world here means the Gentiles, and it is even restricted in that sense as well, to be only the Elect Gentiles in the world..

 

[Delmar]

depth:



So are you denying that Esau was an Individual ?

No, I think he was pointing out that you are a moron.

 

[beloved57]

John 3:16

John 3:16

God has no Love for any man except His Saving and Electing Love, whereby He actually saves Chosen sinners through Christ. Why speak of God's Love and neglect to mention as it is declared in scripture, that it is discriminating Elective Love Rom 9:11-13 ; Deut 7:6-7

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.



6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

Now who can miss this grand Truth that God's Love here is the foundation for choosing a People[Israel], His Purpose according to Election!

Paul writes in Eph 1:3-5, that those Chosen in Christ were predestined in Love.

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Now is this Love of God any different from His Love to that People in Deut 7:7 or Jn 3:16 ? Are the objects of this Love different ? No it is not. In all these God's Love is toward a Chosen People Deut 7:7 or Jn 3:16. So in Jn 3:16 God's Love is towards a Chosen People in the World like He said in Deut 7:7, its the same People, but now in a different dispensation and generation !

 

[Jordan Fontenot]

2 Peter 3:9 however
Matthew 25: 41-46 and Matthew 7:21

So do what Jesus says and you make it. Don't and you won't

 

[beloved57]

Then are ye bastards and not sons !

Heb 12:6-8

6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

If the Lord chastens all whom He loves, and if He Loves all men without exception, then all men without exception are chastened of the Lord. Now if that is True, then why did this inspired writer of Hebrews say, If ye be without chastening, then are ye bastards and NOT Sons ! How could he write such a comment if He believed that God Loved all men without exception ? If he believed that, then was he careless and foolish to say some could be bastards and not Son. For how could a possibility of that even happen,if God Loved all men without exception ! The reason why he said it however, is because he knew that God did not Love all men without exception.

 

[beloved57]

John 3:16

John 3:16

Many False teachers today have corrupted and used God's word deceitfully by quoting Jn 3:16 as stating that God Loves all men, of all time without exception, and that believing in Christ here is an condition man must meet in order to get saved ! What utter Falsehood. For Jn 3:16 is stating no more than God Loved those in the world who are believing in His Son and that they should not perish. This is a Testimony that God Loved all those in the world who are believing or who are believers or shall be made believers as in Jn 17:20. So in this verse Jn 3:16, there is no testimony at all that God Loves any who are not or will become believers. Only believing in Christ is proof that God Loved someone.

 

[Ben Masada]

False charge?

Hardly.


God addressing the Jews

υμεις εκ του πατρος του διαβολου εστε και τας επιθυμιας του πατρος υμων θελετε ποιειν εκεινος ανθρωποκτονος ην απ αρχης και εν τη αληθεια ουκ εστηκεν οτι ουκ εστιν αληθεια εν αυτω οταν λαλη το ψευδος εκ των ιδιων λαλει οτι ψευστης εστιν και ο πατηρ αυτουεγω δε οτι την αληθειαν λεγω ου πιστευετε μοι

umeis ek tou patros tau diabolou este kai tas epithumias tou patros umōn thelete poiein ekeinos anthrōpoktonos ēn ap archēs kai en tē alētheia ouk estēken oti ouk estin alētheia en autō otan lalē to pseudos ek tōn idiōn lalei oti pseustēs estin kai ho patēr autou egō de oti tēn alētheian legō ou pisteuete moi

You are from the Devil as the father, and the lusts of your father you desire to do. That one was a murderer from the beginning, and he has not stood in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own, because he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. (John 8.44 – 45)


Here we have Jesus, Himself, proclaiming to the unbelieving Jews, in no uncertain terms, that they are from the Devil.

Jews who do not acknowledge Jesus as The Truth are doing the Devil’s work – they are following the Devil’s desires (epithumias), of which, he has been a murderer of man (anthrōpoktonos) from the very beginning.

Jesus had already rightly labeled Jews as murderers and liars long before they killed Him.

Jesus never said those words in John chapter 8. That was written by a Hellenistic anti-Semite, former disciple of Paul's. Perhaps, that chapter was a forgery added by the Church in the 4th Century. Otherwise, it is one more of the contradictions of the NT. Evidence? Read 8:31. It says that Jesus was speaking to the Jews who had believed in him. And in verse 44, Jesus is saying that the Jews who had believed in him were children of the devil. How could that be possible? It is either antisemitism, forgery or contradiction.
Ben

 

[Jordan Fontenot]

Jesus never said those words in John chapter 8. That was written by a Hellenistic anti-Semite, former disciple of Paul's. Perhaps, that chapter was a forgery added by the Church in the 4th Century. Otherwise, it is one more of the contradictions of the NT. Evidence? Read 8:31. It says that Jesus was speaking to the Jews who had believed in him. And in verse 44, Jesus is saying that the Jews who had believed in him were children of the devil. How could that be possible? It is either antisemitism, forgery or contradiction.
Ben

Just because they were in late manuscripts doesn't mean they werent't said by Jesus. Either way this scripture was taken totally out of context. He was speaking to those who were trying to kill him (v.37) So yes their ways and teachings would be of the devil. That was a rough translation though

 

[beloved57]

1 Jn 3:1

1 Jn 3:1

If God Loved all men without exception, and His Love is the same for all, then according to 1 Jn 3:1

1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

All men without exception should be called the Son's of God ! Now if that is True, why did Jesus say to these ethnic jews ? Jn 8:42


42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Also, if God is Father of anyone then they will Love Jesus Christ, Christ said that Himself !" If God were your Father, ye would love me: "

Now Paul wrote in 1 Cor 16:22

22If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

Now consider this, if any man Love not Jesus, then that means according to Jn 8:42, that one has not God as their Father, and if they have not God as their Father, then how could they be loved of God the Father 1 Jn 3:1 ?

Now, see how that false teaching cannot stand the test of scripture ?

 

[oatmeal]

Romans 9:13


13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

How can it be sincerely taught that scripture teaches that God loves all men without exception, when it specifically says of Esau, God Hated ?

And I got news for you, He did not only hate Esau, but all the workers of iniquity. Ps 5:5


5The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

And they that work iniquity shall soon hear these words Matt 7:23


23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Yes, these and those in Ps 5:5 are the very same !
​

I will the prophet/son of God answer your dilemma. John 3:16

Hate is not always used in scripture as the complete antithesis of love.

It is also used in the sense of "love less, not to love, to slight"

God is love. I John 4:8

God does not love some as much as others. God said of Jesus
Christ, "this is My beloved son, in whom I am well pleased"

God is not always pleased with all people.

I trust that this will alleviate your doubts about God's love.

oatmeal

 

[Hilston]

B57 ~ I admire your efforts to present the Biblical case for particular redemption. Sometimes it's helpful to explain redemption in terms of the value and extent of the atonement. I believe it was either Owen or Gill who put it something like this:

If Christ's sacrifice is universal in extent (i.e., if He died for all without exception), yet there are men who end up in hell, then Christ's sacrifice has no redemptive value (i.e., His death doesn't actually save anyone).

If Christ's sacrifice has redemptive value (i.e., His death actually saves people), and is universal in extent (i.e., He died for all without exception), then all men (and women) are saved without exception (i.e., Universalism).

If Christ's sacrifice has redemptive value (i.e., His death actually saves people), and yet some people end up in hell, then it logically follows that Christ's sacrifice could NOT have been universal in extent (i.e., He could NOT have died for all without exception).

So, in the first scenario, Christ's sacrifice has no redemptive value, which is unbiblical. In the second scenario, all men without exception are saved, which is unbiblical. Only the third scenario is logical and biblical, namely, that Christ's sacrifice has actual redemptive value, that each and every one for whom Christ died will actually and inexorably be saved, and that everyone for whom Christ DID NOT die will go to hell.

Thanks for your hard work,
Hilston

 

[Apple7]

Jesus never said those words in John chapter 8. That was written by a Hellenistic anti-Semite, former disciple of Paul's. Perhaps, that chapter was a forgery added by the Church in the 4th Century. Otherwise, it is one more of the contradictions of the NT. Evidence? Read 8:31. It says that Jesus was speaking to the Jews who had believed in him. And in verse 44, Jesus is saying that the Jews who had believed in him were children of the devil. How could that be possible? It is either antisemitism, forgery or contradiction.
Ben

How convenient!

But....the NT scripture that you quote for your position...I guess that is tried and true, right?

 

[beloved57]

If God Loved all men without exception, then is God their Father according to 1 Jn 3:1

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

The US here must be all men without exception for those who believe God Loved all men without exception, then all men without exception are the Sons of God and have God as their Father !

Now Jesus said to some jews this Jn 8:42a

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me:

So from this very statement of Jesus, If God is the Father of a person that person would love Christ, but Paul writes a statement about some who do not Love Christ 1 Cor 16:22

22If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

So how can this be if God Loved all men without exception ? Because if He did, then God is there Father, and if that is so, they will Love Jesus Christ as Jesus said to the jews Jn 8:42a..

 

[beloved57]

Jn 3:16 The distinguishing Love of God for the Elect !

Jn 3:16 The distinguishing Love of God for the Elect !

Those who have corrupted the word of God, take a scripture like Jn 3:16 and force it to say or mean that God Loves all men without exception, even though that's not what it says or means. The Truth of scripture however states and demonstrates that His Love is distinguishing and its only to His Elect ! Deut 7:6-8

6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

8But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

Christ, who is God, is said to Love the Church [World] Eph 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church[The Elect], and gave himself for it;

These are certainly not everyone in the world without exception. The Church are the Chosen of Eph 1:4, which are the Chosen of Deut 7:6-8. Remember God told His Chosen there that they were His Chosen Possession Deut 7:6 " the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself"

Now the word special is the hebrew word cĕgullah and means:

) possession, property

a) valued property, peculiar treasure

b) treasure


Now the same things are said in Eph 1:4 [Chosen] and Eph 1:18

18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

The word inheritance is the greek word klēronomia:

an inheritance, property received (or to be received) by inheritance

2) what is given to one as a possession

a) the eternal blessedness of the consummated kingdom of God which is to be expected after the visible return of Christ

b) the share which an individual will have in that eternal blessedness


So this being God's Chosen inheritance in Deut 7:6-7 was because of them being designated by the Father, when He chose us in Christ.

 

[beloved57]

The Love that God has for them He Loves Deut 7:6-7 has it's origin in Eternity, premised on His Gift of His Son, whose goings forth hath been from everlasting Mic 5:2, He having been ordained to die for the objects of His Love before the world began 1 Pet 1:20

20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you[The Elect 1 Pet 1:1-2]

That God had a distinguishing Love among the human family of men is seen by His words here Mal 1:2

2I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, Notice, He did not say that He Loved Esau, Jacobs brother, He made a point to emphasize that !

Here it is affirmed even amongst men of the same human family of siblings, God Loved Jacob only, and not His brother esau. Now the Truth of the matter is this, each one of us falls into the category of either Jacob, those God Loves or esau, those God hates see Rom 9:13, meaning God does not Love ! We can rebel against this Truth all we want, it is not going to change God one bit !

 

[beloved57]

Only Love revealed !

Only Love revealed !

True Believers take God at His Word ! God's Sovereign distinguishing Love for His Chosen is the only Love for man God reveals as per Deut 7:6-7


6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

Mal 1:2

2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,


Now there is nothing here that suggests that God also Loved the Egyptians or other people groups that existed when this truth was made known, and it would pure assumption to state that He did !

God's Love is not as the False teachers tell us, a general love for all mankind, regardless of their perversion of the Jn 3:16 text or the 1 Jn 2:2 text, but it is special and directed only to His own People Jn 13:1

1Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

The objects of his love are described by his property in them, "his own"; by whom are meant, not all mankind, who are his by creation; nor the Jews, who were his nation and countrymen according to the flesh; nor the twelve apostles only, whom he had chosen; but all the elect of God, who are his own, by his choice of them, by the Father's gift of them to him, by the purchase he made of them with his blood, and by his effectual call of them by his grace:John Gill

The Church Eph 5:25,28-29

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Scripture here is very specific as to who Christ Loved, the Church, same as in Jn 13:1, Which is His own Body

28So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:


Again, Christ Loved His Own Church, His Wife, His Own Body, what can be made more plainer to any honest heart quickened by God ?

Read again Mal 1:2, this is the very scripture God inspired Paul to use when preaching about the Election of Grace Rom 9:11-13 cp Rom 11:5-6. That such a truth is really the case [God's Love being discriminate] that God Loves only some men and not others, Paul anticipated the objection of our carnal mind against it and wrote immediately after vs 14

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

Now how many of us believe that for God to Love only some of humanity and hate others, love them not, simply based upon motives in Himself and not the creature's doing good or evil, that God would be unrighteous[injustice] for doing so ?

Injustice means :

the quality or fact of being unjust; inequity.
violation of the rights of others; unjust or unfair action or treatment.


Those of you who say what Paul anticipated his hearers to say, that if God did this He would be unfair, then you know that Paul Preached a Distinguishing Love of God for some and hating others !

 

[beloved57]

Jer 31:3

3The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Jn 17:23-24

23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

And if God Loved them as He Loved Christ before the foundation of the world, then He Loved His Church in Christ before the foundation of the world !

Now how could God have Loved all men without exception, being that the only Love revealed is an everlasting Love Jer 31:3 even as His Mercy is from everlasting to everlasting, not upon all without exception, but upon them that fear Him per Ps 103:17

17But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

Now, do all men without exception fear God ? NO..

And as His Mercy is from everlasting to everlasting, so also to them He Loved. Now if this be True, those of you who believe in the everlasting punishment of the wicked which scripture teaches Matt 25:41


41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

And those Christ said this to Matt 23:32-33

32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

You must conclude that God Loved them from Everlasting to Everlasting, and so He will be Loving them while they are cursed in the everlasting confines of everlasting fire ! How absurd !

 

[beloved57]

All those God Loved have something in common with one another, that those God does not love do not have !

First they were Chosen in Christ before the world began, they were all Loved from everlasting Jer 31:3

Secondly, they have Christ as their Surety and Covenant Head from Everlasting !


Third, they have a accomplished redemption !

Fourthly, They receive the Gift of Eternal Life !

Fifth, They are quickened out of being dead in trespasses and sins Eph 2:5

Lastly, they will Love God Rom 8:28; 1 Jn 4:9

We love him, because he first loved us.

I recall Jesus saying to some jews this Jn 8:42

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

God's Love to a person shall causes that person to Love God and Christ !

So whoever dies in this condition 1 Cor 16:22

If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.


That person was never Loved by God !