beloved57
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The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
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beloved57
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well, that word "all" is important too -atrol:
Yeah and it is important to understand what it means !
beloved57
Well-known member
Whom the Lord Loveth, He chastens !
Whom the Lord Loveth, He chastens !
This fact alone is proof that God does not Love all men without exception, because as it is written Heb 12:6-7
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Are all Sons ? Of course not,neither are all Loved by God !
Rev 3:19
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Jesus specifically says here "As many as I love" I chasten !
Why doesnt He just say, I love all without exception, so i will chasten all without exception ? The very fact that He qualifies whom He Loves by saying "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten" proves that His Love is Limited to an exact amount of Sons !
Who is it limited to ? Lets look at Heb 12:7
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Why its the Sons of God Gal 4:6
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Now everyone Christ died for and redeemed automatically received the Adoption of Sons Gal 4:4-5
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that[hina purpose clause] we might receive the adoption of son
And because that was so, God sends forth the Spirit of His Son in our hearts !
And none are the Sons whom God is not the Father of as implied when Jesus spoke to certain jews Jn 8:42
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
We may safely conclude therefore that none who do not come to Love Christ, of which Paul writes of them 1 Cor 16:22
22 If any man[jew or gentile,black or white] love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.
Because they are not Sons, and Not Loved by God ! They are exempt from being any of these Jn 3:16 !
Whom the Lord Loveth, He chastens !
This fact alone is proof that God does not Love all men without exception, because as it is written Heb 12:6-7
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Are all Sons ? Of course not,neither are all Loved by God !
Rev 3:19
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Jesus specifically says here "As many as I love" I chasten !
Why doesnt He just say, I love all without exception, so i will chasten all without exception ? The very fact that He qualifies whom He Loves by saying "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten" proves that His Love is Limited to an exact amount of Sons !
Who is it limited to ? Lets look at Heb 12:7
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Why its the Sons of God Gal 4:6
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Now everyone Christ died for and redeemed automatically received the Adoption of Sons Gal 4:4-5
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that[hina purpose clause] we might receive the adoption of son
And because that was so, God sends forth the Spirit of His Son in our hearts !
And none are the Sons whom God is not the Father of as implied when Jesus spoke to certain jews Jn 8:42
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
We may safely conclude therefore that none who do not come to Love Christ, of which Paul writes of them 1 Cor 16:22
22 If any man[jew or gentile,black or white] love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.
Because they are not Sons, and Not Loved by God ! They are exempt from being any of these Jn 3:16 !
Nanja
Well-known member
Amen!
The majority of the world of mankind does not Love the Lord Jesus Christ.
They mock, debase, defame, disrespect and blaspheme Him every day.
These are the devil's children, the tares Mat. 13:25, 38, whose end is to be burned Mat. 13:40.
But the world that God gave His Son for John 3:16; 2 Cor. 5:21 is an Elect remnant
of the whole of mankind whom He had Chosen in His Son before time,
to be holy and without blame before Him in Love Eph. 1:4.
~~~~~
Word based mystic
New member
umm let me see
my wife and i birth a child with the intention of hating the child
stupid thought
umm
my wife and i decide to try and have a child so that
we can take that child out into a barn hang them on a rack and have someone torture them for all eternity. Without ever giving them the dying for all empowerment to receive and believe.
(child abuse in any court of law.)
wait oh i am sorry that is called (love) in the (hyper calvinists court of law) as well as justice. Once again we just need to redefine the word LOVE.
God is love and He loves all His created children.
however some deny and are destined for destruction
matthew 10:33 "But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.
romans 10:12-13 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED
my wife and i birth a child with the intention of hating the child
stupid thought
umm
my wife and i decide to try and have a child so that
we can take that child out into a barn hang them on a rack and have someone torture them for all eternity. Without ever giving them the dying for all empowerment to receive and believe.
(child abuse in any court of law.)
wait oh i am sorry that is called (love) in the (hyper calvinists court of law) as well as justice. Once again we just need to redefine the word LOVE.
God is love and He loves all His created children.
however some deny and are destined for destruction
matthew 10:33 "But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.
romans 10:12-13 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED
Word based mystic
New member
and don't lay that doctrine out that mens souls are (NOT) created by God
eccl 12:7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.
isaiah 42:5 Thus says God the LORD, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread out the earth and its offspring, Who gives breath to the people on it And spirit to those who walk in it,
your disgusting view of the robot making and puppet hating God is noted.
eccl 12:7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.
isaiah 42:5 Thus says God the LORD, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread out the earth and its offspring, Who gives breath to the people on it And spirit to those who walk in it,
your disgusting view of the robot making and puppet hating God is noted.
beloved57
Well-known member
Sure you right !
beloved57
Well-known member
Post 244, did you understand the points I made there even though you may not agree with them ?
Word based mystic
New member
yup understood what your incomplete and full scripture ignoring doctrine implies.
john 2:2 He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins—and not only our sins but the sins of (all) the world.
john 3:36 And (((anyone))) who ((believes)) in God's Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn't ((obey)) the Son will ((never)) experience ((eternal)) life but remains under God's angry judgment."
anyone who doesn't (((obey))) conditional action.
1 peter 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God,
For Christ also died for sins once (((for all)), the just for the unjust, so that He might bring (us) to God,
us refers to the above all.
He died for the ((sins)) of all and empowered equipped all to be able to receive or come, or believe or decide, deny.
we preach the gospel to all creation, created men so ((that))
we pray not as if we are puppets and robots.
we worship because He put within us the (potential) to desire to do so. some respond.
What type of god would want his own programmed puppet worship. senseless.
1 peter 3:18 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
yes satan is the father of lies and his seed of lies bears fruit in sinners.
no satan did not father men (earthly life) or their souls. ONLY God did that.
colossians 1:13 shows where all men were before Christ
"has rescued us from the kingdom of darkness and transferred us into the Kingdom of his dear Son,
Who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light
look at all the action scriptures/response scriptures that your doctrine ignores
revelations 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. 21'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.…
I see you used some of the scriptures but don't finish them in full context.
i respond strongly to your posts because of how you betray Gods love and His Fathers heart for all he created and creates.
pure insanity that doctrine of God the sadistic torturer that creates only to send to a torturous existence without the option or empowerment to ((repent))
you have not in even a small way comprehended the Love of the (Father).
john 2:2 He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins—and not only our sins but the sins of (all) the world.
john 3:36 And (((anyone))) who ((believes)) in God's Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn't ((obey)) the Son will ((never)) experience ((eternal)) life but remains under God's angry judgment."
anyone who doesn't (((obey))) conditional action.
1 peter 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God,
For Christ also died for sins once (((for all)), the just for the unjust, so that He might bring (us) to God,
us refers to the above all.
He died for the ((sins)) of all and empowered equipped all to be able to receive or come, or believe or decide, deny.
we preach the gospel to all creation, created men so ((that))
we pray not as if we are puppets and robots.
we worship because He put within us the (potential) to desire to do so. some respond.
What type of god would want his own programmed puppet worship. senseless.
1 peter 3:18 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
yes satan is the father of lies and his seed of lies bears fruit in sinners.
no satan did not father men (earthly life) or their souls. ONLY God did that.
colossians 1:13 shows where all men were before Christ
"has rescued us from the kingdom of darkness and transferred us into the Kingdom of his dear Son,
Who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light
look at all the action scriptures/response scriptures that your doctrine ignores
revelations 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. 21'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.…
I see you used some of the scriptures but don't finish them in full context.
i respond strongly to your posts because of how you betray Gods love and His Fathers heart for all he created and creates.
pure insanity that doctrine of God the sadistic torturer that creates only to send to a torturous existence without the option or empowerment to ((repent))
you have not in even a small way comprehended the Love of the (Father).
Jordan Fontenot
New member
Then what do you do with 2 Peter 3:9?
beloved57
Well-known member
Will God's Love be in them He so Loved ?
Will God's Love be in them He so Loved ?
There is a World of People that God so Loved Jn 3:16, and one of Christ's Prayer requext for them, as they are the Ones God so Loved and He Loved and died for Eph 5:25, the request is this Jn 17:26
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
That God's Love to Himself and to them, which is the same Jn 17:23-24
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
That , that Love might be in them, and that He Himself shall be in them, which happens when God gives them The Spirit Rom 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
And that results in Christ dwelling in our hearts by Faith Rom 8:9
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ are One and the Same !
Eph 3:17
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
This is because, He requested this to be a blessing for those He would die for, that He would be in them Jn 17:23
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Them refers not only to the disciples, but also to whom shall believe on Him through their word Jn 17:20
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Now this Love of God must be put in them, if God so Loved them, and so John writes 1 Jn 4:19
19 We love him, because he first loved us.
If God so Loved us Jn 3:16, it results in us Loving Him ! If it doesnt, Christ's Prayer to His Father was not Honored by the Father !
Will God's Love be in them He so Loved ?
There is a World of People that God so Loved Jn 3:16, and one of Christ's Prayer requext for them, as they are the Ones God so Loved and He Loved and died for Eph 5:25, the request is this Jn 17:26
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
That God's Love to Himself and to them, which is the same Jn 17:23-24
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
That , that Love might be in them, and that He Himself shall be in them, which happens when God gives them The Spirit Rom 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
And that results in Christ dwelling in our hearts by Faith Rom 8:9
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ are One and the Same !
Eph 3:17
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
This is because, He requested this to be a blessing for those He would die for, that He would be in them Jn 17:23
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Them refers not only to the disciples, but also to whom shall believe on Him through their word Jn 17:20
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Now this Love of God must be put in them, if God so Loved them, and so John writes 1 Jn 4:19
19 We love him, because he first loved us.
If God so Loved us Jn 3:16, it results in us Loving Him ! If it doesnt, Christ's Prayer to His Father was not Honored by the Father !
beloved57
Well-known member
Gods Love in Christ brings to Faith !
Gods Love in Christ brings to Faith !
Gods everlasting Love for His Elect [in Christ] causes their Faith, Jer 31:3
3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
Because of this Love and by this Love they are being drawn/led to Him, Persuaded by Him, its the same Truth seen and taught in 2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord[those loved with an everlasting love], because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
By being the beloeved of Lord, it results in belief of the Truth, which is Faith !
Gods Everlasting Love to the Elect is no doubt based upon His Eternal Love of Christ their Head, who stated that He was Loved by the Father before the foundation Jn 17:24
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Note: Christ here is not speaking as a mere private person, but as the Head of a People given to Him Jn 17:2 !
And so He Loved those given Him, In Him so we do read Jn 17:23
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Because God Loved the Head and the Body of Members Simultaneously, so this is the Love of them which is only in Christ Jesus Rom 8:39
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
So it is I understand that Love in Jer 31:3 to be that same Love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord Rom 8:39, which Love draws to Faith in Christ via the Gospel , the belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13-14 !
Gods Love in Christ brings to Faith !
Gods everlasting Love for His Elect [in Christ] causes their Faith, Jer 31:3
3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
Because of this Love and by this Love they are being drawn/led to Him, Persuaded by Him, its the same Truth seen and taught in 2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord[those loved with an everlasting love], because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
By being the beloeved of Lord, it results in belief of the Truth, which is Faith !
Gods Everlasting Love to the Elect is no doubt based upon His Eternal Love of Christ their Head, who stated that He was Loved by the Father before the foundation Jn 17:24
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Note: Christ here is not speaking as a mere private person, but as the Head of a People given to Him Jn 17:2 !
And so He Loved those given Him, In Him so we do read Jn 17:23
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Because God Loved the Head and the Body of Members Simultaneously, so this is the Love of them which is only in Christ Jesus Rom 8:39
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
So it is I understand that Love in Jer 31:3 to be that same Love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord Rom 8:39, which Love draws to Faith in Christ via the Gospel , the belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13-14 !
Interplanner
Well-known member
Very well put, Beloved57. We must come back to what is true in Christ to resolve this.
Nanja
Well-known member
That's exactly what I understand!
From Everlasting, God Purposed to Love only all those whom He has chosen to be in Union with Christ Jesus Eph. 1:4;
One Body, the Church, whom Christ, their Head and Surety, gave His Life for Eph. 5:25. And these are the only ones
which shall be drawn Jer. 31:3 to Him by the Power of God, and shall come to Belief of the Truth and be drawn to Faith:
A small remnant of the whole of mankind Rom. 11:5. Christ's Election Is. 42:1 includes the Election of His Body also:
They are One!
~~~~~
Interplanner
Well-known member
Nanja,
It is important to only refer to the election of Christ. In fact, it's a bit exasperating to think that God picked out certain people not to believe, and I don't find that mentioned by the NT as clearly as the election of Christ and God's desire that people believe that selection.
It is important to only refer to the election of Christ. In fact, it's a bit exasperating to think that God picked out certain people not to believe, and I don't find that mentioned by the NT as clearly as the election of Christ and God's desire that people believe that selection.
beloved57
Well-known member
He did love the world in Christ!
beloved57
Well-known member
Yeah, He not only Purposed to love the elect Chosen in Christ, He actually Loved them in Christ before the foundation as He loved Christ before the foundation John 17:23-24 ! He loved them before they had any being and before they did any good or evil Rom 9:11-13 !
I know you understand that!
beloved57
Well-known member
Its very clear that God destined men to be unbelievers /disobedient to the word ! 1 Peter 2:8 !
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