The Late Great Urantia Revelation

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Lost Comet

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Anything seen thru our most powerful telescopes is limited to the realm of our immediate local universe (Nebadon), or however far the range of our scopes extend. The extended cosmos and 7 Superuniverses that surround the Isle of Paradise are beyond what our scopes at this point in time can capture. The UB provides a cosmological layout of the Grand Universe and the journey of mortals towards their Paradise Goal.
The cosmology of the UB is one of its problem areas as far as I'm concerned and I don't care to speculate. There are simply too many unknowns. A lot of the stuff linked to is mind-candy. Sure, it's fun, but it doesn't draw my attention.

What does draw my attention is the natures of the Absolutes and our relation with them.

An existentialist might say existence precedes essence and from a space-time perspective this probably makes sense: the birth of the universe followed by the evolution of life and the emergence of mind, the essence of a human being, do seem to suggest it. Logically, however, one has to ask how it is possible that existence and essence can be separate, and if not separate, mind did not emerge from something in which it is absent.

THE MECHANISM of living seems to be based on the notion that what sentient beings do is due to an act of volition on the part of each such phenomenal object.

It is obvious, however, that they react rather than act, and that their living is conditioned by instinct, habit, fashion, and propaganda. Their way of life is primarily a series of reflexes, which leaves a limited scope for deliberate and considered action; that is, purposeful action which, superficially considered, might appear to be the result of
volition, or what is called an act of will.

Nevertheless 'volition' is only an inference, for, search as we may, we can find no entity to exercise it. All we can find is an impulse which appears to be an expression of the notion of 'I'. It would seem to be unjustifiable to assume that such an impulse could be capable of affecting the inexorable chain of causation or, alternatively, the process of manifestation which produces apparent events, unless itself it were an element of one or of the other.

Open Secret, Wei Wu Wei (emphasis mine)
The fact of the absolute mechanism of Paradise at the center of the universe of universes, in the presence of the unqualified volition of the Second Source and Center, makes forever certain that determiners are not the exclusive law of the cosmos. Materialism is there, but it is not exclusive; mechanism is there, but it is not unqualified; determinism is there, but it is not alone. (2077.10) 195:6.14
 

JWStipple

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Logically, however, one has to ask how it is possible that existence and essence can be separate, and if not separate, mind did not emerge from something in which it is absent.

The notion that "mind" cannot emerge from a cause / effect (mechanistic), non-dual universe is a questionable premise. Cause / effect does NOT have to "contain" mind as any sort of actuality...it only has to include it as a possibility.

What we know of as "mind" is...at least according to the AI community...essentially software. Not so much software as in a computer program, but rather information, which is massless, but a dependent property of materiality.

But this notion, itself, depends on what "consciousness" is. It's possible to define consciousness as a "thing" that transcends materiality...but that is dualism. Few want to accept the notion that consciousness may actually be something pretty simple. And I understand where that sentiment comes from. At the same time, it is what it is.

If there is no God, then existence is a product of a process simple enough to NOT require intelligent design. If this isn't a dualistic universe, then "mind" MUST be explainable as a product of an essentially mechanical cause / effect process...and "consciousness" is probably being oversold as a mysterious thing...consequently, it becomes difficult to fit it into the relatively sterile, black / white cause / effect paradigm. But this may not really be a problem with consciousness itself...but rather humans' desire to keep it mysterious so they can keep asking questions.
 

Lost Comet

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Being weighed down by beliefs, ideas and sensation, many persons cannot distinguish between the noumenal and the phenomenal.
WE TEND TO misunderstand the nature, and exaggerate the importance, of 'time' and 'space'.

There are no such 'things' (they do not exist in their own right): these come into apparent existence, i.e., they 'function' only as a mechanism whereby events, extended spatially and sequentially, may become cognisable. They accompany events and render their development realisable. In themselves they have no existence whatever. They are appearances, and their apparent existence is deduced from the events they accompany and render perceptible. They are hypothetical, like the 'ether', symbols, like algebra, psychic
inferences to aid in the cognisance of the universe we objectify, and they neither pre-exist, nor survive apart from, the events they accompany, but are utilised in function of each such event as it occurs.

Where there is no event there is no need of 'time' or of 'space'—and in their absence we are no longer in bondage —for there is no one to believe that he is bound.

Time is only an inference, devised in an effort to explain growth, development, extension and change, which constitute a further direction of measurement beyond the three that we know and at right angles to volume; and 'past', 'present' and 'future' are inferences derived from this temporal interpretation of the further dimension in which extension appears to occur. All forms of temporality, therefore, are conceptual and imagined.

The UB puts it differently:
To the finite mind there simply must be a beginning, and though there never was a real beginning to reality, still there are certain source relationships which reality manifests to infinity. The prereality, primordial, eternity situation may be thought of something like this: At some infinitely distant, hypothetical, past-eternity moment, the I AM may be conceived as both thing and no thing, as both cause and effect, as both volition and response. At this hypothetical eternity moment there is no differentiation throughout all infinity. Infinity is filled by the Infinite; the Infinite encompasses infinity. This is the hypothetical static moment of eternity; actuals are still contained within their potentials, and potentials have not yet appeared within the infinity of the I AM. But even in this conjectured situation we must assume the existence of the possibility of self-will. (1153.2) 105:1.5
 
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freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
eternity/infinity relationships.......

eternity/infinity relationships.......

The cosmology of the UB is one of its problem areas as far as I'm concerned and I don't care to speculate. There are simply too many unknowns. A lot of the stuff linked to is mind-candy. Sure, it's fun, but it doesn't draw my attention.


Certain aspects of the cosmology are logically consistent, asides from more spectacular worlds with their own unique names and associations(which appear unique to the UB itself). The basic layout however of the Isle of Paradise being in the very center of the Grand Universe as the nucleus of All That Is, surrounded by the 7 Superuniverses is a wonderful blueprint of the cosmos. This places the eternal Godhead at the innermost core of all reality, so that our journey from this contextual view is an 'inward' one (besides 'progressive' and 'ascendent').

What does draw my attention is the natures of the Absolutes and our relation with them.

Mine as well :) - The UB's teaching on the nature and heirarchy of 'God' is most intricate and fascinating....especially how the 3 Absolutes (The Deity Absolute, Unqualified Absolute and Universal Absolute) coordinate within the Infinite One. The Foreward provides a good outline of what is further expounded on elsewhere.

105:3.9 The Seven Absolutes of Infinity constitute the beginnings of reality. As mortal minds would regard it, the First Source and Center would appear to be antecedent to all absolutes. But such a postulate, however helpful, is invalidated by the eternity co-existence of the Son, the Spirit, the three Absolutes, and the Paradise Isle.

105:3.10 It is a truth that the Absolutes are manifestations of the I AM-First Source and Center; it is a fact that these Absolutes never had a beginning but are co-ordinate eternals with the First Source and Center. The relationships of absolutes in eternity cannot always be presented without involving paradoxes in the language of time and in the concept patterns of space. But regardless of any confusion concerning the origin of the Seven Absolutes of Infinity, it is both fact and truth that all reality is predicated upon their eternity existence and infinity relationships. -UB


pj
 

Lost Comet

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The internal consistency of the UB is most impressive. The concept of the Seven Absolutes gives us an incredibly cogent and consonant frame in which to think. It allows material science to have its say, yet never loses sight of reality being personality-dominated.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
all things 'personal'.......

all things 'personal'.......

The internal consistency of the UB is most impressive. The concept of the Seven Absolutes gives us an incredibly cogent and consonant frame in which to think. It allows material science to have its say, yet never loses sight of reality being personality-dominated.

Yes, a most definitive revelation-teaching on 'personality' itself, as originating from the Universal Father who Himself is a divine Personality. - yet also including all other non-personal levels of reality in all their aspects.

The first Paper wonderfully covers this on The Universal Father (especially last 3 sections)

While 'personality' is a unique bestowal-gift of the Father it appears that such also bears emergent characteristics and features from the various component parts that make up the 'individual' - its development and association other elements. The Papers cover these components and complex associations.

What is wonderful is that if a soul chooses to do the will of God their 'personality' survives, unique in all the universe, unlike any other, the soul and 'God' entering an eternal marriage, a 'divine fusion' whereby that soul can never ever die, hence its 'immortality' and 'eternal life' is secured. The personality therefore maintains its nucleus within the soul amidst the other aspects of its psyche which add to its complexity and capacity of development. There is nothing more fascinating than 'personality', its characteristics and its mystery,...which trace themselves back to the Original Personality of the First Source and Center.

The totality of God includes all that is 'personal' and all that is not, since all that exists has its origin in God.

In a previous thread, Ben offers his viewpoints from a Jewish perspective -

Personification of attributes - Gen. 1:26



pj
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
"The personality of mortal man is neither body, mind, nor spirit; neither is it the soul. personality is the one changeless reality in an otherwise ever-changing creature experience; and it unifies all other associated factors of individuality. The personality is the unique bestowal which the Universal Father makes upon the living and associated energies of matter, mind, and spirit, and which survives with the survival of the morontial soul."

Good work FL, nice to see you out and about.


Caino
 

Majeston

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So the UB universes are real physical universes that can be seen with a telescope or is it in other unseen dimensions?


Presbyteers,

After many years of study and after reading everything available from anyone who has ventured an explanation of the cosmological model presented in the UB I have found the most sensible depiction of the model according to the UB info, to be here after about slide 45 or so. The area around the Great Attractor and the Shapely region.

I think you will find the whole presentation quite interesting.


http://www.ubastronomy.com/index.php
 

Aimiel

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Anyone who calls themselves, "Christian," shouldn't have anything to do with the UB, having been written by someone channeling a demon. :duh:
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist

Lost Comet

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Anyone who calls themselves, "Christian," shouldn't have anything to do with the UB, having been written by someone channeling a demon. :duh:
Do you read the Bible?
Matthew 12:24-26 (King James Version)

24But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

25And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

26And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
 

Aimiel

New member
Do you read the Bible?
I do.

Exodus 22:18
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Deuteronomy 18:10
There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.

Channeling evil spirits is witchcraft. There can NOTHING GOOD come from the Urantia papers, since they were divined with witchcraft.
 

Aimiel

New member
Your brilliance never ceases to amaze.
The darkness of the Urantia papers, and the other garbage that you espouse is far from amazing... only the depths of your foolishness are what amaze me. You'd think that if you were to read enough of it you'd see what trash it truly is, and run to the Truth; but you're only more and more deceived. :nono:
 

Charity

New member
I do.

Exodus 22:18
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

QUOTE]



Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought [them] unto Adam to see what (Name calling) he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that [was] the name thereof.
 

Charity

New member
The darkness of the Urantia papers, and the other garbage that you espouse is far from amazing... only the depths of your foolishness are what amaze me. You'd think that if you were to read enough of it you'd see what trash it truly is, and run to the Truth; but you're only more and more deceived. :nono:


Read carefull an FIGURE....


1Sa 28:3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had lamented him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city. And Saul had put away those that had familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land.

an the next thing you Know!!

1Sa 28:6 And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.


1Sa 28:7 ¶ Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a WOMAN that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, [there is] a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.

1Sa 28:9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?
And Saul sware to her by the LORD, saying, [As] the LORD liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.
Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou [art] Saul.
And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ASENDING out of the earth.
And he said unto her, What form [is] he
 

Aimiel

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Do you believe that the stories of what Saul did were placed in The Holy Bible so that we might follow his example, and use witchcraft, rather than obey The Lord? :duh:
 

Charity

New member
Do you believe that the stories of what Saul did were placed in The Holy Bible so that we might follow his example, and use witchcraft, rather than obey The Lord? :duh:

You axeknowledge the force of other worlds? realms, Do you believe you can ever shut them up?
Abrahams bossom...etc
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

The darkness of the Urantia papers, and the other garbage that you espouse is far from amazing... only the depths of your foolishness are what amaze me. You'd think that if you were to read enough of it you'd see what trash it truly is, and run to the Truth; but you're only more and more deceived. :nono:

You havent a clue of what you criticize, let alone comparing the Papers to your outdated OT references and definitions of 'witchcraft', commonly paraded by fundies against any other revelations outside the bible.

With little research or knowledge of the Papers themselves (how they came about and that it was not thru a method of what is commonly known as 'channelling' today), beyond your presumptuous, biased and misinformed opinions...your usual attributing things to 'demons' are the typical drill. You have nothing to offer here but the same old accusations and judgments. - doesnt leave much room for dialogue. You dont notice that about yourself? same old grind......nothing new......



pj
 
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