The Late Great Urantia Revelation

[freelight]

Strange as it may seem, Paul’s conversion and really brilliant insights into "heavenly things", it was really Abner who made the valiant attempt to preserve the gospel of the kingdom of heaven at Antioch. The gospel began to change immediately after Jesus ascension into heaven and the subsequent outpouring of "the spirit of truth". In Peter’s impulsive enthusiasm, a new understanding began to assert itself which lead to Paul’s formation of the atonement doctrine.


Caino

Is more shared about Abners teachings and interpretation of the Masters words compared to his associates with whom he differed?
Granted, we already have a shift of difference between the Jerusalem community and Paul's gospel to the gentiles. The UB accentuates more the 'social gospel' aspect of Jesus....the Fatherhood of God and brotherhood of Man, so curious as to Abners views. Elsewhere I see only 'Love' as being the true atonement for all.



pj

 

[Caino]

Is more shared about Abners teachings and interpretation of the Masters words compared to his associates with whom he differed?
Granted, we already have a shift of difference between the Jerusalem community and Paul's gospel to the gentiles. The UB accentuates more the 'social gospel' aspect of Jesus....the Fatherhood of God and brotherhood of Man, so curious as to Abners views. Elsewhere I see only 'Love' as being the true atonement for all.



pj

Hi Free, Yes, there is more in the Ub about Abner, his former position with John the Baptist and subsiquent belief in Jesus wherein he became head of "the seventy". But as far as any other discusions about Abner there is this explanation in the UB as to why we stopped hearing from Abner and his defence of the "kingdom of hesven idea as that was embodied in the techainhgs of Jesus.

"The Jews at Jerusalem had always had trouble with the Jews of Philadelphia. And after the death and resurrection of Jesus the Jerusalem church, of which James the Lord’s brother was head, began to have serious difficulties with the Philadelphia congregation of believers. Abner became the head of the Philadelphia church, continuing as such until his death. And this estrangement with Jerusalem explains why nothing is heard of Abner and his work in the Gospel records of the New Testament. This feud between Jerusalem and Philadelphia lasted throughout the lifetimes of James and Abner and continued for some time after the destruction of Jerusalem. Philadelphia was really the headquarters of the early church in the south and east as Antioch was in the north and west."

On one occasion, as you may recall, there arose a dispute between the apostles of John and the apostles of Jesus about weather baptism with water was to be adhered to or baptism of the spirit. Jesus refused to intervene in these matters staying true to one of the great principles of the UB teaching "human wisdom must evolve".

Again and again would they take their troubles to Jesus, only to hear him say: "I am concerned only with your personal and purely religious problems. I am the representative of the Father to the individual, not to the group. If you are in personal difficulty in your relations with God, come to me, and I will hear you and counsel you in the solution of your problem. But when you enter upon the co-ordination of divergent human interpretations of religious questions and upon the socialization of religion, you are destined to solve all such problems by your own decisions. Albeit, I am ever sympathetic and always interested, and when you arrive at your conclusions touching these matters of nonspiritual import, provided you are all agreed, then I pledge in advance my full approval and hearty co-operation. And now, in order to leave you unhampered in your deliberations, I am leaving you for two weeks. Be not anxious about me, for I will return to you. I will be about my Father's business, for we have other realms besides this one."

In public discourse, religious or otherwise, we can have one charismatic personality with the gift of oratory yet not necessarily correct and another less effective individual with a greater truth. The more aggressive personality will win the day.

Abner was more aligned with the gospel concept of Jesus and steadfastly remained true to that. Paul repackaged the gospel with his own spin.

Jesus has "fostered" the Christian church as the best exponent of his life work......but that does not mean it's perfect.


Consider also the Bestowal limitations set forth prior to Michael’s incarnation:

6 "5. As you may see fit, you are to identify yourself with existing religious and spiritual movements as they may be found on Urantia but in every possible manner seek to avoid the formal establishment of an organized cult, a crystallized religion, or a segregated ethical grouping of mortal beings. Your life and teachings are to become the common heritage of all religions and all peoples.

Caino

 

[Aimiel]

John 6:53
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

What exactly does this mean to you, Aimiel?

It means that if you don't believe in Christ's atonement for your sins on the cross, and signify that belief by drinking the Cup of His Blood (wine or grape juice) and eat His Flesh (unleavened bread or a cracker substitute) corporately, together with other believers, observing and discerning His Blood and His Flesh, you have no part in His Kingdom, which is spiritual and eternal. You not only partake of cleansing from sins when you do so, but healing for your flesh, and renewing your commitment to Him. It signifies your faith in His redeeming Power, through His sacrifice of His Life in place of yours. It is a very somber and personal action, and should not be taken as a religious ceremony, but as a personal commitment to Christ, Who gave His Life for that cup and that bread. He is The Bread of Life. His Blood is Life Eternal. His sacrifice was the greatest example of love that there will ever be.

 

[One Truth]

Aimiel:

Is there some reason why you psoted the same answer twice?

 

[Aimiel]

I was hoping it might stir a response this time.

 

[ThePresbyteers]

This message is deleted and closed.

 

[Caino]

I will respond to it Aimiel.

The doctrine that you have articulated is a common, ritualistic exorcize common among Christians, but it could not have been the "good news" taught and practiced by Jesus for the 3+ years prior to his death. What you are describing is NOT what the people were hearing from Jesus.

After Jesus died, the new garment was sown onto the old, new wine was put into old wine skins, the gospel changed, then the Christian religion was built around it.

Jesus did not teach atonement or human sacrifice.




Caino

 

[Aimiel]

Jesus did not teach atonement or human sacrifice.

Actually, He did...

Matthew 26:28
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

 

[Caino]

Actually, He did...

Matthew 26:28
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

You’re assuming that this line means that Jesus was a sacrifice to bring forth Gods forgiveness, there are other ways to interpret this line which would be consistent with Jesus' gospel that God was already forgiving.

God is changeless, God does not evolve, mans understanding of God evolves.

This line could mean that the love of God is such that he was willing to go through the death experience for all to see, resurrect him from the dead to prove Gods promise of life eternal, thus leading man to repent and restore right relations with our loving Father.

With that in, mind, read it again: "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins".



C

 

[Aimiel]

You’re assuming that this line means that Jesus was a sacrifice to bring forth Gods forgiveness, there are other ways to interpret this line which would be consistent with Jesus' gospel that God was already forgiving.

There may well be any number of ways to interpret The Gospel, but your 'gospel' isn't the one that the apostles preached. Christ, crucified, means that God is satisfied by His sacrifice, and without His Blood, there is no remission for sins. Cults which twist Scripture are a dime-a-dozen, but not one of them is worth paying any attention to. The Bible is sufficient, and contains God's Truth. The UB doesn't hold Truth, or even sound doctrine.

 

[Caino]

There may well be any number of ways to interpret The Gospel, but your 'gospel' isn't the one that the apostles preached. Christ, crucified, means that God is satisfied by His sacrifice, and without His Blood, there is no remission for sins. Cults which twist Scripture are a dime-a-dozen, but not one of them is worth paying any attention to. The Bible is sufficient, and contains God's Truth. The UB doesn't hold Truth, or even sound doctrine.

I have shown you by the scripture where Jesus and his apostles went about teaching "the good news" of the kingdom long before his death and resurrection (which is only a part of the message).

It is actually the cult of Christianity, the religion about Jesus that departed from the gospel of Jesus almost from the beginning.

You are not intellectually honest enough to face these stark and irrefutable facts. In your narrow mind you must cherry pick from the contradictory writings of the bible to justify your faith in the compromised doctrine of Peter and Paul.

If your mind were not blinded by pride you would be able to see that many were saved by faith long before the new gospel of atonement arose in the Old Testament minds of converted Christians.

The torturous murder of God incarnate to satisfy the heart of a changeless God is a disgusting, primitive notion.

Blood sacrifice is a clever cop out for those unwilling to be remade through spiritual transformation.


Caino

 

[freelight]

communion...............

communion...............

The torturous murder of God incarnate to satisfy the heart of a changeless God is a disgusting, primitive notion.

Blood sacrifice is a clever cop out for those unwilling to be remade through spiritual transformation.


Caino

Yes,....God's Love is a reality, here, now....no blood sacrifice necessary to 'earn' or bestow such, for its an eternal affection.

As we've previously noted,...there are other ways to 'translate' the 'eucharistic' aspects of the 'Lords supper', but most important is the 'communal', 'commemorative' and 'spiritual significance' of these 'symbols', for ultimately it is the spiritual sharing of such that avails.

We share in God's Spirit NOW....all else are reflection devices reminding us of this central communion.



pj

 

[freelight]

vessels...........

vessels...........

While being a tai chi practitioner, I have been studying the meaning of Qi and how the westerns describe it's meaning. I've been trained in many techniques and form of tai chi for many years. To push to a higher level of energy, I would like to ask the Urantia Books readers on how they feel about these 2 youtube videos posted below:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu99GRUUN6Y&mode=related&search=[/url]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu99GRUUN6Y&mode=related&search=

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=B2DXdFYDXCk&feature=related[/url]

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=B2DXdFYDXCk&feature=related

These energies showed in these 2 videos are similar to the Pentecostal Charismatic movement and the similarities are in the reaction to a person with certain abilities to use energies. Back to the tai chi environment, I would like to hear any suggestions or links on the Urantia Book in relationship to these types of energies shown in the videos.

We've shared with you on this already, and have supplied the pertinent chapter concerning 'mind, matter, energy', for your own research.

The second video is excellent, and I'd recommend the practical wisdom of this particular teacher.

Self-mastery would include the right use and appropriation of energy in service to life and its balance. The energy flow and manipulations experienced by the eastern masters and within Spirit-filled christian ministries are the same primal energy, yet differ in functional context within each belief-system. The ideal is for one to use his mind and physical vessel as a conduit of Spirit to serve the greater good, so in this case...all the gifts of the Spirit can flow freely thru those vessels surrendered to the One Life. Phenomena such as 'swooning', 'shaking', 'falling out in the Spirit', etc. are natural reactions of the physical body to energy.



pj

 

[Majeston]

I have shown you by the scripture where Jesus and his apostles went about teaching "the good news" of the kingdom long before his death and resurrection (which is only a part of the message).

It is actually the cult of Christianity, the religion about Jesus that departed from the gospel of Jesus almost from the beginning.

You are not intellectually honest enough to face these stark and irrefutable facts. In your narrow mind you must cherry pick from the contradictory writings of the bible to justify your faith in the compromised doctrine of Peter and Paul.

If your mind were not blinded by pride you would be able to see that many were saved by faith long before the new gospel of atonement arose in the Old Testament minds of converted Christians.

The torturous murder of God incarnate to satisfy the heart of a changeless God is a disgusting, primitive notion.

Blood sacrifice is a clever cop out for those unwilling to be remade through spiritual transformation.


Caino

Caino my wise friend,

I am wondering who you are and where you are from.

 

[Caino]

Caino my wise friend,

I am wondering who you are and where you are from.

Hi Majeston,

You may know me as "Colter" on other forums


Caino

 

[Aimiel]

You and Your Cult Cherry-Pick Scripture... NOT Christians

You and Your Cult Cherry-Pick Scripture... NOT Christians

I have shown you by the scripture where Jesus and his apostles went about teaching "the good news" of the kingdom long before his death and resurrection (which is only a part of the message).

You've shown no such thing. Jesus preached repentance and baptism. He didn't preach salvation, because His sacrifice hadn't yet taken place. It was first given to a thief, as Jesus died. The first Christian was crucified beside Jesus.

It is actually the cult of Christianity, the religion about Jesus that departed from the gospel of Jesus almost from the beginning.

Christianity is relationship with God; a cult is any religion which doesn't teach The Blood of Jesus as our only hope. Your UB is one of the leaders in that parade.

You are not intellectually honest enough to face these stark and irrefutable facts.

Your so-called 'facts' are mere musings of a demon, and have nothing at all to do with Truth. In point of fact, they're the exact opposite of Truth.

In your narrow mind you must cherry pick from the contradictory writings of the bible to justify your faith in the compromised doctrine of Peter and Paul.

Only false cults like the UB cherry pick Scripture. The Bible doesn't contradict anything except demonic doctrine.

If your mind were not blinded by pride you would be able to see that many were saved by faith long before the new gospel of atonement arose in the Old Testament minds of converted Christians.

But no one was given eternal life until The Blood of The Lamb of God was shed.

The torturous murder of God incarnate to satisfy the heart of a changeless God is a disgusting, primitive notion.

That's your opinion. Actually, it was God's Plan from before He laid the foundation of the earth.

Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Blood sacrifice is a clever cop out for those unwilling to be remade through spiritual transformation.

Blood is required to pay for sins. The Life of Christ is infused into us through His Blood. Cult religions always try to get rid of the most powerful thing there is: Jesus' Blood. Only His Blood can cleanse us. Only His Blood has life. You have no life in you, if you don't eat His Flesh and drink His Blood.

John 6:53
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

 

[Aimiel]

As we've previously noted,...there are other ways to 'translate' ...

Yes, 'other' ways, but those ways are demonic in their doctrine. Sound doctrine uses common sense and The Word of God. The 'light' that you're bowing to is darkness, and how great is that darkness!!!

Matthew 6:23
But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

 

[Caino]

You've shown no such thing. Jesus preached repentance and baptism. He didn't preach salvation, because His sacrifice hadn't yet taken place. It was first given to a thief, as Jesus died. The first Christian was crucified beside Jesus.

Aimiel,

I knew you hadn’t read the UB but now it's obvious you have not read the Bible either. Your doctrine is in direct conflict with Jesus:

The Bible:

Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. 46You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. 47Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little."


48Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

49The other guests began to say among themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?"

50Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

No blood, just a loving and forgiving God who has always been the same. It's man that has been confused by the ways of the world.


Its understandable that you would be confused and speaking out of ignorance, the atonement doctrine as well as other non-Jesussonion teachings were woven into Paul's new gospel, paving the way for confusion and an inconsistent presentation to the world.

155:5.9 The acceptance of the traditional religions of authority presents the easy way out for man's urge to seek satisfaction for the longings of his spiritual nature. The settled, crystallized, and established religions of authority afford a ready refuge to which the distracted and distraught soul of man may flee when harassed by fear and tormented by uncertainty. Such a religion requires of its devotees, as the price to be paid for its satisfactions and assurances, only a passive and purely intellectual assent. UB

Caino

 

[Charity]

A

A

Jesus did not achevive his earthly goal even upon his so rising from the dead.
Can it be seen that men just kept up with the arrogant faith' adding whatsoever they please to continue on an keep people misitfied, every imagination imagined every further excuse under the sun as to create a further hope for their Narion to boggy on past death do us part..

 

[Aimiel]

I knew you hadn’t read the UB but now it's obvious you have not read the Bible either.

I've read the entire Bible, more times than I like to recall. I get more revelation from His Holy Word every time I read It.

Your doctrine is in direct conflict with Jesus:

That is a lie.

Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. 46You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. 47Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little."

48Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

49The other guests began to say among themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?"

50Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

No blood, just a loving and forgiving God who has always been the same. It's man that has been confused by the ways of the world.

Without Jesus' Blood, neither she nor even Abraham, Elijah, Enoch or anyone else will have eternal life. Jesus knew that she would be one of His lambs, and would eat His Flesh and drink His Blood in holy communion.

Its understandable that you would be confused and speaking out of ignorance, the atonement doctrine as well as other non-Jesussonion teachings were woven into Paul's new gospel, paving the way for confusion and an inconsistent presentation to the world.

155:5.9 The acceptance of the traditional religions of authority presents the easy way out for man's urge to seek satisfaction for the longings of his spiritual nature. The settled, crystallized, and established religions of authority afford a ready refuge to which the distracted and distraught soul of man may flee when harassed by fear and tormented by uncertainty. Such a religion requires of its devotees, as the price to be paid for its satisfactions and assurances, only a passive and purely intellectual assent. UB

There's nothing passive about eating His Flesh and drinking His Blood. It takes a sombre act of your will. Without discerning His Body and His Life in the elements, there is no life in you. You want to teach demonic doctrine, which ALWAYS tramples Jesus' Blood underfoot and tries to bring Christ down from His Throne. It doesn't work. You're missing the most important part of Christianity. Your false religion is powerless, without His Precious Blood.