The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

[Melody]

Originally posted by c.moore
dan37


Water baptism is " the answer of a good conscience to ward God ". Not a salvation experence. Water baptism is an earthly picture of what has already been performed in a believers heart.

The one baptism is an act of the Holy Spirit that occures at the time of the new birth. It happens "ONE TIME FOR ALL


Those christian that are decieved that water baptism is salvation can`t accept and will not believe that the water baptism is only for the earthly testimony and A outward example on what happen in the spirit when a person get saved.

Welcome to the battle with the scubba divers .

And How does one receive that "good conscience"? Through the remission of sins through Baptism!!

Mar 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, ....

 

[JustAChristian]

Two Baptisms!

Two Baptisms!

Originally posted by c.moore
JustAchristian said:
There is not a spiritual baptism and a water baptism


quote c.moore
Then if this is true what you say, then tell me what this mean to you sence you rightly divide the Word of God ok ????????????

Ac:1:5: For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

What is this Holy Ghost baptism?

1Co:12:13: For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Joh:1:33: And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

Look the spirit must be in you to be alive in christ and this doesn`t happen by water, but by letting christ in your heart :
Ro:8:9: But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Ro:8:10: And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Lu:3:16: John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: Ac:11:16: Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Every sinner who now gets converted and believes the gospel receives the Holy Spirit, who then indwells him; simultaneously he is added as a member to the body of Christ which was formed on pentecost through the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

by the way I would like to say that I like to test the fruits and see if they are from God that why I ask about mark 16:16 to see where jerry is comming from praise God.

Let God bless you

C.moore

Then if this is true what you say, then tell me what this mean to you sence you rightly divide the Word of God ok ????????????

Ac:1:5: For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

I have never contended that there was never two baptisms. In fact, there is three baptisms : Water, Holy Spirit and fire. Am I getting too deep for you c.moore? What we need to always do is in fact, rightly divide the word of God. John came baptizing in the Jordan (water baptism). Jesus baptized with the Holy Spirit (On the day of Pentecost over the Apostles, and at the house of Cornelius. This fulfulled the promise that all flesh (Jew and Gentile) would be baptrized with the Holy Spirit. All flesh does not mean all people, for there are numerous examples of Christians that did not experience the HolySpirit baptism in the Bible.

What is this Holy Ghost baptism?

Holy Spirit baptism is the overwhelming of a person with the spiritual manifestation of the third person of the Godhead enabling that person to perform signs and miracles. This is not to be confused with the laying on of hands of the Apostles to impart the Holy Spirit (Act 8:14-17).

1Co:12:13: For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit

A good verse, but one not having anything to do with Holy Spirit Baptism. The Spirit is the agent of God, not the element today. If he was the element, he would be manifested like that of the first century, but have you ever seen the Holy Spirit? The apostles of the 2nd chapter of Acts saw "tongues like as of fire and it lit on each one of them" and the Jews with Peter saw Holy Spirit coming down on those of the household of Cornelius. He was visible. Have you seen the Holy Spirit? Have you ever witnessed a Holy Spirit baptism? Think about it.

Lu:3:16: John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Ac:11:16: Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

I think my last entry covers this quote as well. Have you ever seen the Holy Spirit baptism, in this or last century?

Every sinner who now gets converted and believes the gospel receives the Holy Spirit, who then indwells him; simultaneously he is added as a member to the body of Christ which was formed on pentecost through the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

You are partly right. We do have an indwelling (Romans8:9), but it was not because of Holy Spirit baptism. Did anyone of Pentecost see the Holy Spirt in baptism, except for that of the Apostles?

by the way I would like to say that I like to test the fruits and see if they are from God that why I ask about mark 16:16 to see where jerry is comming from praise God.

Jerry is wrong on his conclusion. The apostles were to baptize (Matthew 28:18-20, baut they did not do Holy Spirit baptism. They imparted the Spirit by laying on hands, but this is different than what happened to the apostles and the household of Cornelius. Since the apostles were to baptize and not with the Holy Spirit, then the one baptism of Ephesians 4 is water baptism. This is because there were still apostolic baptisms at that time. (Acts 19:1-6).

JustAChristian

 

[JustAChristian]

Have You ever......?

Have You ever......?

Originally posted by Jerry Shugart
JustAChristian,

You jump to unwarranted conclusions concerning my beliefs in regard to the Holy Spirit.

Please consider the fact that a rite of water baptism is a public act performed by man,and man can fix the date and hour of that rite.The new birth of the Spirit is altogether the work of God.And the Lord Jesus declared that no man can forecast the work of the Spirit and no man can command it:

"The Spirit breathes where He wills,and thou heareth His voice,but knowest not whence He cometh and whither He goeth:SO IS EVERY ONE THAT IS BORN OF THE SPIRIT"(Jn.3:8).

Take the New Birth of Peter,for example.After Peter had been around the Lord Jesus,he became aware that Jesus is indeed the Son of God,the promised Messiah.Later,the Lord asked Peter whom he thought the Lord was:

"He saith unto them,But Who say ye that I am?

"And Simon Peter answered and said,Thou art the Christ,the Son of the living God.

"And Jesus answered and said unto him,Blessed art thou,Simon Barjona,for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee,but My Father,Who is in heaven"(Mt.16:15-17).

At the moment that Peter realized that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Messiah and the Son of God,he was "born of God":

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God...for whoever is born of God overcometh the world;and this is the victory that overcometh the world,even our faith.Who is he that overcometh the world,but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God"(1Jn.5:1,4,5).

In this baptism it is the Spirit that baptizes the believer into life.On the other hand,the baptism at Pentecost was different.The Lord Jesus Himself is the baptizer,and this baptism is not unto life.Instead,it is for "power":

"But ye shall receive power after the Holy Spirit is come upon you;and ye shall be witnesses unto Me"(Acts1:8).This power was so that His disciples could "CONFIRM the word with signs following"(Mk.16:20).

So you jumped to a false conclusion when you assumed that the baptism at Pentecost is the same baptism that giveth life.

And 1Peter3:19-21 does not have anything to do with a "water baptism".The "water" saved those in the ark (notice that this is not a water baptism,especially since by your own words a water baptism immerses that which is baptized,and neither the people nor the ark were immersed in water).The "baptism" in verse 21 is not referred to as a "water baptism",but simply as the "baptism " that saves us.And "it is the Spirit that giveth life"(Jn.6:63),and it is the Spirit that baptizes us into Christ:

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body...the Body of Christ"(1Cor.12:13,27).

In His grace,--Jerry

Jerry,

I'll ask you the same thing that I asked c.moore, have you ever seen a Holy Spirit baptism? You must recall that in the 1st century they were visible. Have you seen one? Not a lot, just one?

JustAChristian

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The "one baptism" is not when one was baptized with the Holy Spirit,as happened at Pentecost.That baptism was for "power",not for salvation.

The "one baptism" is the baptism that occurs when the believer is baptized into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit.

The sinner is baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit when he hears and believes the gospel that comes in the power of the Holy Spirit.The Holy Spirit baptizes him into His death,as well as His life.We are so identified with His life that Paul can say that Christ "is our life".And it is the Holy Spirit that identifies us with His life.

The Lord described it perfectly when He said,"It is the Spirit that giveth life...The Words that I speak unto you,they are Spirit,and they are life"(Jn.6:63).

Also,I do not think that the baptism "with the Holy Spirit" for "power",as as happened on the day of Pentecost, are in God´s will during the present dispensation.

In His grace,--Jerry

 

[c.moore]

study to show yourself approved 2 Tim2:15 .

study to show yourself approved 2 Tim2:15 .

Quote by Melody

And How does one receive that "good conscience"? Through the remission of sins through Baptism!!


Quote by c.moore

No, this is not completly correct because you are adding to the Word of God and you are not dividing the Word of God to what the scripture is saying.
Let me show you where you need to learn ,and understand the truth.
I`ll try to break it down in a very simple form for you to understand, but please don`t take my words only ,study on your free time for yourself and compare with what I am saying to what the Holy Spirit will teach you when you first let pray about the scripture according to 1Jo:2:27: But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Let`s look at these scriptures with a magnify glass together.

the first scripture you said and added water baptism as remission of our sins is:1Pe:3:20: Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1Pe:3:21: The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

In verse 20 we see that God had waited for people to believe, to be saved from the flood , but we see in this verse only eight were saved, not being IN the water but by being in the boat under God protection, and mercy. Notice also there was a preparing or the building of the boat, so this included hard work in building the boat so they can be saved , so they must obey God in order to be saved in the days or that time of the old testament life of Noah.

In verse 21, look at the beginning of the verse where is said the like figure, better meaning; not the exact thing but the Idea or example of how Noah and the eight was saved from the water.
Now please try to follow and understand what I am saying ,The thing that saved them was the boat, and I think you would agree.
The boat is not water, and I think you will agree on this also.
All they had to do is JUST stay in the boat, no guiding the boat, or doing any kind of works to keep from drowning, and I think you will agree with me.
Now sence we now see that it is the boat that saved them from the water, and not the water saved them we can go futher into the real meaning of the this scripture without believing that water saves.

The eight was saved by immersing (into )the ark .
Now if the boat did the drowning, and they stayed in the water and lived I would believe that water is salvation , and saves and I think you would agree with me.

If I was in the boat with Noah and I was the nineth person I would come out wearing a chain on my neck with a medillion with a picture of a boat on it.

The word baptism here in this verse is baptism into Christ or the immering into Him like the Noah went into the boat to save Himself and family, so are we saved by the ressurection of Christ.
That why you see so many scripture saying we in Christ Jesus, and also Jesus in us after recieving Jesus as our personal savior.
the thing that saves us is that what happen on the cross 2000 year ago, and the blood of Jesus alone , and our belief that saved us only. We want to stay with Jesus because we trust Him to protect us and guide us to everlasting life.
The Same figure was by Noah in the water, he trust God to guide them to dry land and he believed only that nothing will happen to them.
This should be the reason why we wear A cross on our necks to show other we are saved already by the cross only , and the cross should not have Jesus still on it like must catholic have , because we are saved by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Not a water baptism ritual saves or bring salvation.
If this was so true I would wear a chain on my kneck with a picture of a sea or ocean on it ,or a carved out water wave on my neck.

In the verse 21 says the ANSWER of a good conscience toward God.
Conscience means according to Webter dictionary :knowledge of one own acts as right or wrong in all conscience surely.

So the spirtual act of being immerge into Jesus like noah going into the boat , is being seen in the natural by water baptism, and this will help your walk with Jesus, like also the Lord supper reminds us of Jesus death. The bread , and the wine is not the real parts and blood of Jesus like the catholics doctrine believe, but it is a symbol like the water baptism, only the water baptism takes place only once, like we only beileve once that Jesus Died for us and we trust in Jesus only once, so is water Baptism.

I hope this helps your growth in the truth.
I will reply on the other verses also well.

Let God Bless you
peace

 

[JustAChristian]

Is He the Agent or Element?

Is He the Agent or Element?

Originally posted by Jerry Shugart
The "one baptism" is not when one was baptized with the Holy Spirit,as happened at Pentecost.That baptism was for "power",not for salvation.

The "one baptism" is the baptism that occurs when the believer is baptized into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit.

The sinner is baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit when he hears and believes the gospel that comes in the power of the Holy Spirit.The Holy Spirit baptizes him into His death,as well as His life.We are so identified with His life that Paul can say that Christ "is our life".And it is the Holy Spirit that identifies us with His life.

The Lord described it perfectly when He said,"It is the Spirit that giveth life...The Words that I speak unto you,they are Spirit,and they are life"(Jn.6:63).

Also,I do not think that the baptism "with the Holy Spirit" for "power",as as happened on the day of Pentecost, are in God´s will during the present dispensation.

In His grace,--Jerry

Jerry,

You last post suggest that the Holy Spirit is the agent in the salvation of a soul. Then you switch and say things that make me feel he is the element. Which one is it? I thought we were cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ, but you want the Holy Spirit to be the cleansing agent. What's it gonna be, bud? And, you didn't tell me if you have ever seen the Holy Spirit in a baptism. Well, have you? They did in the 1st century!

JustAChristian

 

[JustAChristian]

Does "Feelings" play a part in one's salvation?

Our salvation is NOT based on the way that we feel. Our feelings (consciences) are much too fickle and subjective to be sure guides. In Acts 8, we read about a man who served as the treasurer for the queen of Ethiopia, who had been to Jerusalem to worship and was on his way back to his homeland. As he traveled in his chariot, he was reading from the book of Isaiah the prophet. A preacher by the name of Philip came to him and asked if he understood what he was reading. The Ethiopian replied, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he asked Philip to study with him. “Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him” (Acts 8:35). When Philip “preached Jesus” to the Ethiopian, he included the proper response to the good news of Jesus. For when they came to some water, the Ethiopian asked, “What hinders me from being baptized?” Then both Philip and the Ethiopian went down into the water where Philip baptized him. Now notice the effect that his obedience had upon the Ethiopian: “he went on his way rejoicing!” (Acts 8:39). Why? Because he knew he had done what the Lord wanted him to do to be saved from his sins (cf. Acts 2:38). His feelings of gratitude and joy followed his obedience to the truth of the gospel of Jesus. His salvation was not based on the way that he felt, but knowing that he had obeyed the truth DID stir his feelings.

Our salvation is not based on the way that we feel, but upon our obedience to Christ as commanded in the written Word of God. “These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may KNOW you have eternal life” (1 John 5:13). Have you obeyed the Lord in baptism like the Ethiopian?

JustAChristian

 

[Melody]

Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

If you would be wise, obey the truth. Peter and the apostles preached and practiced water baptism in the name of Jesus. Are you soo spiritual that you know more than these that were taught by Jesus personally?

 

[c.moore]

Melody
did you understand the message ?????
peace

 

[Freak]

Hello C. Moore, I received your message. I hope you have received my email. We would like to come back to Germany here soon. I will try calling you here soon.

C. Moore and the other believers here are defending a truth that must be defended. Salvation is not by water (something God has created). One is saved by the Lord Jesus Christ, an actual person who is God.

 

[Melody]

Originally posted by c.moore
Melody
did you understand the message ?????
peace

Did you understand mine? All your proclaiming and pontifications on why baptism is not necessary does not erase the fact that Jesus and the apostles taught that it is necessary. If it was not necessary they would not have taught and practiced it.

The gospel is simple and easy to understand.

Jesus Christ, as God manifested in the flesh, lived and died for our sins. He was resurrected on the third day and promised power through the gift of the Holy Ghost to live an overcoming life and be witnesses to him to them that believe.

He instructed those that believe to repent and be baptized in His name for the remission (removal) of our sins. And the gift of the Holy Ghost will lead us and guide us into all truth.

God has always required obedience in the first steps before He leads into further revelations of His will.

If you truly want to know more of truth you must be obedient to the simple things first.

Have you been baptized by immersion in Jesus" Name? Have you received the Holy Ghost? What is your evidence that you have received the Holy Ghost?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

JustAChristian,

If you will go back and read my posts you will find your answer.

I am tired of working on posts that answer your questions,and then you completely ignore them.Then later you come back and mis-represent what I said.For example,I made myself clear in a long post dated 5-09-2002 4:26 AM.You made NO COMMENT on that post,which explains my position very well.

In His grace,--Jerry

 

[Kevin]

The truth shall prevail...

The truth shall prevail...

JustAChristian and Melody,

AMEN to your posts guys... keep on preaching the truth!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Melody,

The Lord did not tell anyoner to "repent and be baptized" for the remission of sins.

The people were told to repent for the remission of sins.And those that did repent for the remission of their sins were then baptized.

For example,Matthew 3:11 should read:

"I baptize you with water because of repentance."

In the KJV,this verse reads:

"I,indeed baptize you with water unto repentance..."

But the Greek word translated "unto" is from the Greek word,"eis".

That word is translated "at" in the following verse:

"They repented AT the preaching of Jonah"(Mt.12:41).

This verse is saying that they repented BECAUSE of the preaching of Jonah.

The correct rendering of Mt.3:11 is,"I baptize you with water because of repentance."

That is why Paul refused to baptize the Pharisees who came to be baptized.He did not think that they had truly repented and therefore had not had their sins forgiven.That is why he asked for proof of their repentance:

"Bring forth,therefore,fruits befitting repentance"(Mt.3:8).

He was saying,you must demonstate the reality of your change of mind from your pastway of living.If this change of mind is not present,then there is no need to be baptized.

Again,the water baptism was for those who had truly repented,and by this repentance they had received the forgiveness of sins.They did not receive the forgiveness of sins by submitting to the rite of water baptism.

In His grace,--Jerry

 

[c.moore]

Originally posted by Melody


Did you understand mine? All your proclaiming and pontifications on why baptism is not necessary does not erase the fact that Jesus and the apostles taught that it is necessary. If it was not necessary they would not have taught and practiced it.

The gospel is simple and easy to understand.

Jesus Christ, as God manifested in the flesh, lived and died for our sins. He was resurrected on the third day and promised power through the gift of the Holy Ghost to live an overcoming life and be witnesses to him to them that believe.

He instructed those that believe to repent and be baptized in His name for the remission (removal) of our sins. And the gift of the Holy Ghost will lead us and guide us into all truth.

God has always required obedience in the first steps before He leads into further revelations of His will.

If you truly want to know more of truth you must be obedient to the simple things first.

Have you been baptized by immersion in Jesus" Name
Have you received the Holy Ghost? What is your evidence that you have received the Holy Ghost?

Quote c.moore

I believe in water baptism very much and >I teach that every christian should be water baptized, but I teach the good news that people are saved as soon as they accept Jesus in their hearts, and that they are saved as soon as they trust jesus as their personal savior. when they believe and have repented and ask the blood of Jesus to wash them they are saved because they immerged into Jesus kingdom and they are the righteous adopted children already.

You keep try to take the place of Jesus and this can`t save you melody you can`t save yourself.
No one comes to the Father except through Jesus.

You ask ,Have you been baptized by immersion in Jesus" Name?
Yes, and I was baptized in the name of the FATHER, the SON, and the HOLY SPIRIT.of course and more than once because the first time I got wet I came out doing worst sins before I got wet.
I was baptized with no knowledge of why I am getting baptized.
I did get wet as a traditional ritual,like many do for their confirmations.

You ask:Have you received the Holy Ghost?
Yes , and with evidence of speaking of tongues.

You ask :What is your evidence that you have received the Holy Ghost? [/QUOTE]

Like I said in the last question speaking in tongues, according to
M'r:16:17: And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Also,Ro:8:11: But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

1Co:6:19: What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1Co:6:20: For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

2Co:1:21: Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
2Co:1:22: Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.



You said melody
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, ....



Quote c.moore
Notice the firt thing to do is REPENT, and that is with the mouth and the heart according to Ro:10:9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Ro:10:10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Let me ask you a question because I think we also have a different belief on this in which you always mention ( in the name of Jesus.
What do you think that means in the name of Jesus?????

Do you think this mean a baptism must be SAID ,or the Words said in the name of Jesus in a baptism to be from God??????

Let Jesus bless you
peace

 

[c.moore]

Let`s look at these scriptures with a magnify glass together.

the first scripture you said and added water baptism as remission of our sins is:1Pe:3:20: Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1Pe:3:21: The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

In verse 20 we see that God had waited for people to believe, to be saved from the flood , but we see in this verse only eight were saved, not being IN the water but by being in the boat under God protection, and mercy. Notice also there was a preparing or the building of the boat, so this included hard work in building the boat so they can be saved , so they must obey God in order to be saved in the days or that time of the old testament life of Noah.

In verse 21, look at the beginning of the verse where is said the like figure, better meaning; not the exact thing but the Idea or example of how Noah and the eight was saved from the water.
Now please try to follow and understand what I am saying ,The thing that saved them was the boat, and I think you would agree.
The boat is not water, and I think you will agree on this also.
All they had to do is JUST stay in the boat, no guiding the boat, or doing any kind of works to keep from drowning, and I think you will agree with me.
Now sence we now see that it is the boat that saved them from the water, and not the water saved them we can go futher into the real meaning of the this scripture without believing that water saves.

The eight was saved by immersing (into )the ark .
Now if the boat did the drowning, and they stayed in the water and lived I would believe that water is salvation , and saves and I think you would agree with me.

If I was in the boat with Noah and I was the nineth person I would come out wearing a chain on my neck with a medillion with a picture of a boat on it.

The word baptism here in this verse is baptism into Christ or the immering into Him like the Noah went into the boat to save Himself and family, so are we saved by the ressurection of Christ.
That why you see so many scripture saying we in Christ Jesus, and also Jesus in us after recieving Jesus as our personal savior.
the thing that saves us is that what happen on the cross 2000 year ago, and the blood of Jesus alone , and our belief that saved us only. We want to stay with Jesus because we trust Him to protect us and guide us to everlasting life.
The Same figure was by Noah in the water, he trust God to guide them to dry land and he believed only that nothing will happen to them.
This should be the reason why we wear A cross on our necks to show other we are saved already by the cross only , and the cross should not have Jesus still on it like must catholic have , because we are saved by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Not a water baptism ritual saves or bring salvation.
If this was so true I would wear a chain on my kneck with a picture of a sea or ocean on it ,or a carved out water wave on my neck.

In the verse 21 says the ANSWER of a good conscience toward God.
Conscience means according to Webter dictionary :knowledge of one own acts as right or wrong in all conscience surely.

So the spirtual act of being immerge into Jesus like noah going into the boat , is being seen in the natural by water baptism, and this will help your walk with Jesus, like also the Lord supper reminds us of Jesus death. The bread , and the wine is not the real parts and blood of Jesus like the catholics doctrine believe, but it is a symbol like the water baptism, only the water baptism takes place only once, like we only beileve once that Jesus Died for us and we trust in Jesus only once, so is water Baptism.

I hope this helps your growth in the truth.

Melody can you tell me where you think I am wrong here ???????

Let God Bless you
peace

 

[Melody]

Originally posted by c.moore
Let`s look at these scriptures with a magnify glass together.

the first scripture you said and added water baptism as remission of our sins is:

These are NOT my words, these are scripture.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.



Man, without having his sins remitted through baptism in the Name of Jesus CANNOT have a good conscience.

Rom 3:9 What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:


1Pe:3:21: The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

QUOTE]Originally posted by c.moore

In verse 20 we see that God had waited for people to believe, to be saved from the flood , but we see in this verse only eight were saved, not being IN the water but by being in the boat under God protection, and mercy. Notice also there was a preparing or the building of the boat, so this included hard work in building the boat so they can be saved , so they must obey God in order to be saved in the days or that time of the old testament life of Noah.


The word baptism here in this verse is baptism into Christ or the immering into Him like the Noah went into the boat to save Himself and family, so are we saved by the ressurection of Christ.
In the verse 21 says the ANSWER of a good conscience toward God.
Conscience means according to Webter dictionary :knowledge of one own acts as right or wrong in all conscience surely.

[/QUOTE]


Baptism is like the ark in that if you don't participate you don't get saved.

Noah and his family could have "believed" in the ark all they wanted but if they had not obeyed God and gotten on board they would have perished with the rest of the world.

You can "believe" in Jesus all you want but if you don't obey His instructions when the end comes you will be left out in the dark with the rest of this wicked world.

 

[Evangelion]

Amen, Melody. :up:

 

[elected4ever]

Baptism For the remission of sins- What does that mean? Ever though what that meant? The word remise is the surrender of something. To surrender is to give something up. When a nation surrenders she gives up her sovereignty. When an army surrenders it gives up its arms. When you surrender you give away whatever you possess or that which is demanded or requested of you. If you hide something you do not surrender it. If you hold on to it you have not surrendered it.

There is another sense of the word remise. That is the process of surrendering. When a person has cancer in remission, that is to say a cure is in process and the cure will be complete at some future date. When an army has surrendered and is in the process of giving up its arms it is said to be in remission even though the the surrender has already taken place When something is given away it becomes the possession of the receiving party.Weather or not the surrendering party is in possession of what is surrendered, the victor owns the property surrendered.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38

Repent, what does that mean? To repent is to reconsider. A person cannot reconsider something that has never been presented to them. What was presented to them that they needed to reconsider. How about Jesus as the Messiah. To reconsider is to give opportunity for one to change one’s mind about something. Paul is saying that they should change there mind about who Jesus is. The religious leadership of the Jews had rejected Jesus as the Messiah and opportunity was given at Pentecost for acceptance of Jesus the Christ. It should be noted that repentance (the reconsidering and changing of one’s mind) was and is a prerequisite to baptism.

When you see the word “for”, think “because off”. Peter said that we should change our minds and be baptized for (because of) the remission (surrender) of sins. If you hang on to your sins you have not surrendered them. If you continually remind every one that you are a sinner, I hardly think you have given them up but wont to carry your sin around with you to show how religious you are. If you have surrendered your sin then you do not own them any more. They belong to Jesus. He bought and paid for them so let go of them if indeed you have surrendered them.

The gift of the Holy Ghost (Spirit) is that which is received from the Holy Ghost. Not the Holy Ghost, Himself. This is not salvation. Salvation occurred when we believed in Christ Jesus. The Holy Ghost is the gift of Christ. The Holy Ghost is the administrator of a salvation received.

Baptism is a mark of public identification. At one time I worked in a garage and I wore a uniform to identify me as an employee of the company. The armed forces are the same. There is no such thing as a secret Christian. Baptism is an identifying act. I could care less weather it is by dipping, sprinkling or pouring. The act identifies a person as a believer in Christ Jesus to the society in which he lives and a point of remembrance to the person receiving the Baptism. Baptism is an act of obedieence and if one refuses to be baptized then we as breathers have reason to suspect the sincerity of that individual.

 

[Evangelion]

Having thrashed out the baptism question for weeks on end with others at this forum, I shall restrict my comments to "I disagree."