The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

[Kevin]

Ian,

Since you seem to have a problem with the terminology saved vs. justified (which are synonomous), here is a direct quote from Freak:

Quote from Freak:

"It will open your eyes to the truth that justification is by faith alone."


Quote from the word of God:

James 2:24
24) You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Is that better, Ian? Can you see the difference now? Same terminology.

And Freak, you have a lot of nerve to tell people to deal with your posts. When this thread started months and months ago, I asked you several, several times to show me a verse that says that the disobedient will have rights to the tree of life. You have YET to address this. Antipas noticed this. Here is a direct quote from him:

quote:
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Originally posted by Freak
Kevin,

Let's try one more time.

In 1 Cor. chapter 15 (not verse 15 as you wrongly assumed), but chapter 15, did the Apostle Paul mention baptism when we reminded the believers of what the Gospel is?
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Why don't you respond to Kevin's question? This is the third time that you've avoided it.


Antipas

That was on 9-17-2001. Deal with MY question that I've asked you over and over and over. Are you going to deal with it or avoid it like you always have?

I'll sum it up AGAIN for you:

Revelation 22:14

14) Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and my enter through the gates into the city.

That verse make it quite clear that those who do His commandments are the ones who will have rights to the tree of life. What does the Bible say about those who don't keep His commandments?

1 John 2:3-6

3) Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

4) He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5) But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.

6) He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.


Now I want you to show me a verse that says that those who do NOT obey His commandments will have rights to the tree of life (will be saved). I've lost count of how many times I've asked this.

 

[Freak]

Kevin,

Let's try this again.

The Apostle Paul taught quite clealry that those "...He justified, He also glorified." (See Romans 8:30)

The Bible is clear my friend. If you are justified then you will (note the absence of maybe or might) be glorified.

It's really that clear. Now accept the truth!

 

[HopeofGlory]

Kevin

Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Matt. 22:36 (KJV)
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Matt. 22:37 (KJV)
This is the first and great commandment. Matt. 22:38 (KJV)
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Matt. 22:39 (KJV)
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Matt. 22:40 (KJV)
While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, Matt. 22:41 (KJV)

Are you referring to the above commandments as was John?

He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 1 John 2:9 (KJV)
He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. 1 John 2:10 (KJV)
But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes. 1 John 2:11 (KJV)
I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name’s sake. 1 John 2:12 (KJV)

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 1 John 2:15 (KJV)

In Christ
Craig

 

[Kevin]

Freak,

Well, I can see that you choose to continue avoiding my age old question. Indeed, how can I debate someone who will not answer?

I'll agree with you on one thing, Freak, the Bible is quite clear... and it teaches about a lot more than just faith. Perhaps someday you might see that.

 

[Kevin]

HopeofGlory,

Are you referring to the above commandments as was John?

I'm referring to anything that Christ commanded us to do.

 

[Apollos]

Kevin -

Freak hides behind his words and will refuse to come out into the light.

We will soon see that HoG will do the same.

 

[HopeofGlory]

Kevin

Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. Luke 18:22 (KJV)

Have you sold all that you have?

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matt. 5:48 (KJV)

Are you perfect as God is perfect?

Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where **** and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: Matt. 6:19 (KJV)

Do you save money?

Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? Matt. 6:25 (KJV)
Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? Matt. 6:26 (KJV)

Do you work for a living?

And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. Matt. 8:21 (KJV)
22But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. Matt. 8:22 (KJV)

Do you bury your dead?

And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. Matt. 5:29 (KJV)
And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. Matt. 5:30 (KJV)

Have any of your members offended you?

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; Mark 16:17 (KJV)
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Mark 16:18 (KJV)

Do you handle snakes, can you drink deadly things, when you lay hands on the sick do they always recover, and do you speak in tongues?

In Christ
Craig

 

[HopeofGlory]

Apollos

Hey "waterdog" I see you made it back!

Craig

 

[JustAChristian]

Freak says I didn't deal with his post!

Freak says I didn't deal with his post!

Go back and see what Jesus our Lord has said regarding this issue.

In John 10:9 Jesus said "I am the gate; whoever enters through mewill be saved."

In John 5:24 Jesus said "...whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life...."

Now tell me where does Jesus say you must be baptized to be saved or eternal life? I'll be waiting for an answer....and please don't avoid my question, simply deal with these two verses...

As I said in my answer on this post, where does Jesus deal with repentance in these posts. Just because Jesus did not deal with baptism specifically at this time, the whole of anything is the sum of its parts. Jesus deals elsewhere with baptism just as he deals elsewhere with repentance. John 10:9 and John 5:24 is not all that Jesus taught about eternal life.

JustAChristian

 

[Elena Marie]

Freak--

Originally posted by Freak
Go back and see what Jesus our Lord has said regarding this issue.

In John 10:9 Jesus said "I am the gate; whoever enters through mewill be saved."

In John 5:24 Jesus said "...whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life...."

Now tell me where does Jesus say you must be baptized to be saved or eternal life?

Funny you should choose John 10:9. If you examine the context of the event, you'll find that in the beginning of chapter 9 as part of a healing miracle, Jesus makes spittle for the blind man's eyes and tells him "Go, wash in the pool of Siloam." The washing was an integral aspect of the miracle. Christ could have merely said the word and the man would have been healed, but He didn't. He told the man to go wash in a specific pool, the pool of the "sent." Not the bathroom sink, but the pool of the sent.

The man wasn't healed until he washed in the pool. After he washed, he could see (John 9:7.)

When you quote John 10:9, it is in the context of this healing. I don't know how you could attempt to divorce the washing aspect of the miracle, which is so prominent, with the idea of baptism.

 

[Freak]

Marie, again deal with what Jesus said "I am the door". If someone enters through HIM then that person will be saved. Trust me and the Holy Scriptures, Jesus is all we need. He is eternal God. He doesn't need some water. Water is unable to forgive sins. Water does not provide the relationship that one needs with God to find peace. Water is just that water. Jesus is a person, no wonder He says "Come unto me..."

 

[JustAChristian]

Abraham’s faith and righteousness were not of God or in Christ. His faith was not heavenly and his reward was not heavenly. Eternal life was not attainable at this time and his faith was of himself not being in Christ. His reward was earthly in every sense, looking forward to a kingdom on this earth. His righteousness was not in Christ, the true righteousness of God.

Rom. 4:1 (KJV) What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom. 4:3 (KJV) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom. 4:4 (KJV) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.


Yours in Christ
Craig

Sorry, but I don't find Abraham so distraut or downcast feeling he was missing out on anything. the Hebrew writer sys:

" By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed to go out unto a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. By faith he became a sojourner in the land of promise, as in a land not his own, dwelling in tents, with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: for he looked for the city which hath the foundations, whose builder and maker is God." (Hebrews 11:8-10)

JustAChristian

 

[JustAChristian]

Hey Waterdog?!

Hey Waterdog?!

Apollos

Hey "waterdog" I see you made it back!

Craig

Define Waterdog.

JustAChristian

 

[JustAChristian]

When do you get Jesus?

When do you get Jesus?

Marie, again deal with what Jesus said "I am the door". If someone enters through HIM then that person will be saved. Trust me and the Holy Scriptures, Jesus is all we need. He is eternal God. He doesn't need some water. Water is unable to forgive sins. Water does not provide the relationship that one needs with God to find peace. Water is just that water. Jesus is a person, no wonder He says "Come unto me..."

Thats just it! You can't "get" Jesus without baptism (Galatians 3:26-27) Water can't save you from sins but baptism as Christ presribes can (mark 16:16; 1 Peter 32:21). You look at the physical which can do nothing. We look at the spiritual which avails. Come unto Jesus is obedient faith. Baptism is a part of that faith. Hear him and accept it.

JustAChristian

 

[Freak]

The big difference between you and I is this:

I believe Jesus alone is enough.

You believe Jesus and something else is what one needs.

I think I'll stick with Jesus, He is eternal God, He alone is able. Paul understoond this: You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus (see Galatians 3:26).

 

[JustAChristian]

Is Baptism Other Than Jesus?

Is Baptism Other Than Jesus?

The big difference between you and I is this:

I believe Jesus alone is enough.

You believe Jesus and something else is what one needs.

I think I'll stick with Jesus, He is eternal God, He alone is able. Paul understoond this: You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus (see Galatians 3:26).

Can't you see? Baptism is not "other than Jesus". What Jesus has commanded is his gospel.

Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life." (John 5:24). Jesus delivered that which the Father sent him to deliver. We must hear and do those commandments. (James 1:22). There is no promise of salvation in supposition. There is no promise of salvation in imposition. There is salvation only in truth. Jesus is the essence of truth. Baptism is truth (Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 2:38). Don't sale yourself short. Jesus said, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Every one therefore that heareth these words of mine, and doeth them, shall be likened unto a wise man, who built his house upon the rock: and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and if fell not: for it was founded upon the rock. And every one that heareth these words of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand: and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and smote upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall thereof. (Matthew 7:21-27). Jesus says it better than I could ever say.

JustAChristian

 

[Freak]

It looks like you're up against Jesus, my friend.

Jesus said quite clealry "I am the way" (John 14:6). He is salvation. Baptism is not the way. Jesus said He was. Now either Jesus is telling the truth or not. I believe Jesus, I do not believe you. I'll let Jesus be my salvation not the water of baptism.

 

[JustAChristian]

It looks like you're up against Jesus, my friend.

Jesus said quite clealry "I am the way" (John 14:6). He is salvation. Baptism is not the way. Jesus said He was. Now either Jesus is telling the truth or not. I believe Jesus, I do not believe you. I'll let Jesus be my salvation not the water of baptism.

Let me give you a link to do an indept study of baptism. There is a lot of information on the subject.

http://www.bebaptized.org/

JustAChristian

 

[Freak]

See as you have proven, you would rather focus on some water then the person of the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus is my salvation, not some water. You have chosen to believe, falsely at that, that water saves. I have believed that Jesus alone saves. For Jesus is God, He is the creator of the water. You have chosen to allow the created to save you (which really doesn't-it's a deception you have believed) I on the other hand have chosen to allow the Creator of the water to save me. Big difference.

 

[JustAChristian]

See as you have proven, you would rather focus on some water then the person of the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus is my salvation, not some water. You have chosen to believe, falsely at that, that water saves. I have believed that Jesus alone saves. For Jesus is God, He is the creator of the water. You have chosen to allow the created to save you (which really doesn't-it's a deception you have believed) I on the other hand have chosen to allow the Creator of the water to save me. Big difference.

The only thing I can say is that greater and more important people than you have refused the gospel (Acts 24:25; Acts 26:24-25; Acts 26:28). I pray that some day you will change your thinking on the subject.

JustAChristian