ECT The Gospel Proper

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Danoh

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Wrong, I know HOW people become Christians. I know how all are saved in this age of Grace. I'm not the one who is stuck in some time warp trying to made something work that was never meant for anyone living today.

1 Cor. 4:14-15 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

We are begotten by the Gospel, and preaching the Gospel of Grace is what we do. That is what Paul preached. Some of us plant and others water. Some of us teach and others shepherd young believers. To spend your time arguing about water baptism is counterproductive to sharing the ONE Gospel that saves. And Paul agrees with me.

Nicely put :thumb:

Especially that part about - "some of us water."

It shows an understanding of the actual sense of that, as used by Paul in 1 Cor. 3, in his describing of Apollos's having lent a helping hand to that Grace Assembly that Paul had planted in Acts 18.

See, that, Turbo - in Scripture, not every reference to a thing, in this case, to water, actually refers to the actual thing, h20..

Just a matter of Nehemiah 8:8.
 

turbosixx

New member
THEN I'll address you on this water baptism myopia of yours.

No need for you to address it. You're continued avoidance in explaining why Paul practiced water baptism throughout all his travels, on Jew and Gentile alike, tells me all I need to know.
 

turbosixx

New member
1 Cor. 4:14-15 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Were these Corinthians, Paul is writing to, water baptized?



Did these people have their sins forgiven by something other than grace?
Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

If so, how did they earn it?
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Were these Corinthians, Paul is writing to, water baptized?

Some may have been water baptized (John's baptism), but certainly not all.

1 Cor. 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:


Did these people have their sins forgiven by something other than grace?
Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

If so, how did they earn it?

Those Jews and were saved by grace through faith plus works.
God required works before Paul was sent with his Gospel.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
No need for you to address it. You're continued avoidance in explaining why Paul practiced water baptism throughout all his travels, on Jew and Gentile alike, tells me all I need to know.

You like making things up, don't you? That's what happens when a person wants to see something that isn't there. Paul said he was not sent to baptize, and you say he did so through all his travels. Paul said he was thankful he only baptized a few, and you say it was his practice.
 

God's Truth

New member
You like making things up, don't you? That's what happens when a person wants to see something that isn't there. Paul said he was not sent to baptize, and you say he did so through all his travels. Paul said he was thankful he only baptized a few, and you say it was his practice.

Paul let Apollo do the water baptizing.
They worked together.
 

God's Truth

New member
Some may have been water baptized (John's baptism), but certainly not all.

1 Cor. 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:


Those Jews and were saved by grace through faith plus works.
God required works before Paul was sent with his Gospel.

Paul preached have faith (just like Jesus taught when he walked the earth), and Paul preached repent and prove it (just like John the baptizer and Jesus taught when they walked the earth).

2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
You like making things up, don't you? That's what happens when a person wants to see something that isn't there. Paul said he was not sent to baptize, and you say he did so through all his travels. Paul said he was thankful he only baptized a few, and you say it was his practice.

Not only that but it has been explained to him why Paul baptized at all. He just doesn't like the explanation.

He's stuck in the mire of proof-text theology where this tree or that tree is the focus while the forest is ignored.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Yep... he has said that he wants to learn.... but he doesn't learn.

Well, I don't think that's intentional. I could be wrong but with him it feels to me like a simple paradigm issue. It doesn't seem to me like he isn't seeing it because he won't but because I can't. It's like showing the color green to someone with red tinted glasses on. It just doesn't work.
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Well, I don't think that's intentional. I could be wrong but with him it feels to me like a simple paradigm issue. It doesn't seem to me like he isn't seeing it because he won't but because I can't. It's like showing the color green to someone with red tinted glasses on. It just doesn't work.

 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Not only that but it has been explained to him why Paul baptized at all. He just doesn't like the explanation.

He's stuck in the mire of proof-text theology where this tree or that tree is the focus while the forest is ignored.

Maybe a whole thread devoted to that would be good.

I love how Paul says, "And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;".

I didn't see him respond to that at all. :think:
 

Danoh

New member
Well, I don't think that's intentional. I could be wrong but with him it feels to me like a simple paradigm issue. It doesn't seem to me like he isn't seeing it because he won't but because I can't. It's like showing the color green to someone with red tinted glasses on. It just doesn't work.

Exactly.

And paradigm issues are different for each person - some see some things right away, others, only after much time going back and forth with whomever is attempting to point a thing out to them.

And it depends on other, closely related things a person is already clear on, and or comes to grow clearer, on over time.

Still, others merely grow worse in their view, become even more married to it.

Largely because they do not give the other side the benefit of the doubt, and actually bother to search The Scriptures DAILY whether what is being asserted to them is, or is not so, Acts 17: 11,12.

Searching The Srciptures, daily, NOT isolated passages.

Heck, even his pet verse, Mark 16:16 cannot even begin to be rightly understood, absent of what the Lord had said to the Twelve some three years or more BEFORE The Cross, in the latter half of Matthew 10.

And that part of Matthew 10 is just a fraction of the information needed from Scripture AS A WHOLE, if one is to properly understand, Mark 16.

Never mind the need to also constantly study in depth the Law and the Prophets the Lord had often based what He'd say, do, and or instruct others to do, on.

As in Matthew 8:1-4, to use one of the simpler examples, what He instructed that Israelite to do, is right out of Leviticus 14.

Turbo's paradigm is clearly that of the traditions of men he has so obviously been confused by, together with his own reading into one thing or another.

The result being that although his intentions might be good, he is too determined to prove his misunderstandings are sound, to actually be reasoned with from Scripture.

Hopefully he is off somewhere finally giving attendance to reading, at the very least, Exodus thru Deuteronomy, the very basis of both The Prophets and Matthew thru Early Acts, Isaiah 8, John 5, Acts 2 and 3.

Isaiah 8:13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 8:15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken. 8:16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples. 8:17 And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him. 8:18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion. 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.


3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

There's the problem - Turbo has repeatedly refused to abide by Isaiah 8:20 on all that.

And until he at least actually for a time puts aside his just skepticism (given the ever obvious bliss of his ill-informed paradigm) and actually abides by Isaiah 8:20 by investing some time in Exodus through Deuteronomy (as a start), there will be no reasoning with him based on an attempt to reason with someone who is familiar with where the other side is actually coming from.

Til then, his kind will continue to be not much better in their good intentions than the Apostle of the Gentiles had once been, despite his own good intentions...

Acts 26:9 I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth.

Try the Three-Fold Study Principle so obviously clear in Acts 17:11, 12, turbo.

Romans 5:6-8.
 
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