The Gospel Of Thomas

[lifeisgood]

That's one reason I'm not Christian. If you are convinced you have the truth you will not be moved from it.

I do not believe I have the Truth, I know I have the Truth, because when the Truth came into my life, I became a totally different person.

I became a new creation and the only person that can understand that is the one that has gone through the born again experience.

I never go by what people say or do, I always check things out for myself. "God, if you really exist I need you to show yourself to me." And He did.

Yes you would need a New Testament to read the words of Paul. It's no wonder you don't seem interested in the words of Jesus.

I have no idea from what I said that you understood that I have a problem with Paul or that I am not interested in Jesus' words.

You seem to be saying here you are against any "works" which could mean a number of things.

No, I said, that if Christians studied their Bible the way they study other books there would be less of nonsense in the Christian community and that would be a good thing.

Do you disregard repentance of sin and forgiveness of others? That's what Jesus was teaching or do you disagree?

Again, I have no idea where you're getting that I am disregarding Jesus' teaching about repentance of sins and forgiveness of others.

I agree with everything my Bible says that Jesus said.
Do I understand it all? No. Do I believe it all? Yes.

Jump in anywhere.

Thank you.

Thanks for not being rude about it.

You're welcome.

 

[freelight]

Memo

Memo

Still discussing this tripe?

Your 'opinion' has been 'addressed' previously here (and elsewhere).



pj

 

[Pnevma]

Seems to say the same as the NT. I don't remember seeing the last sentence in the NT tho. "they will stand solitary" seems to contradict "against", I'm not sure what to make of it yet.

Joe, in his infinite wisdom, say that things will manifest when discussed.
I agree.
Regarding the text...

So.... you haven't seen TOL, then?
:think:

 

[Pnevma]

This is a great thread and I’m sorry work keeps me away from it. I have plenty to say about the question “who do you think I am?”

And it reflects on “the physician can’t heal if he is known”.

 

[jeremysdemo]

He stands at the door waiting.

the inner Christ.

 

[JosephR]

There are a few places where Jesus teaches to leave all worldly good's behind.

Luke 9:3: ‘And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece’.
Mark 10-27
21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

It could mean to give alms will do harm to your spirit because you shouldn't have more then you need in the first place.Or they would look like hypocrites when they taught others to turn from worldly things.

Then He says to go in the towns and if they receive you do your good works then eat or take any hospitality they give you ,mainly food.

 

[JosephR]

This is a great thread and I’m sorry work keeps me away from it. I have plenty to say about the question “who do you think I am?”

And it reflects on “the physician can’t heal if he is known”.

Yes it seems the others didnt know who He was but tried to say flattering things. But Thomas being true to His heart and spirit just spoke the truth,and later was rewarded by Jesus for it.

Cant wait to hear your ideas on this later,as well.

 

[unknown]

(17) Jesus said, "I shall give you what no eye has seen and what no ear has heard and what no hand has touched and what has never occurred to the human mind."

The meaning here is obvious. There is also a parallel in the NT.

 

[unknown]

(18) The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us how our end will be."
Jesus said, "Have you discovered, then, the beginning, that you look for the end? For where the beginning is, there will the end be. Blessed is he who will take his place in the beginning; he will know the end and will not experience death."

I think this one was mentioned earlier but It's no problem to include it again.

The body has an earthly beginning so this is not speaking of our bodies. Our "being" came from God and will return to Him.

 

[unknown]

Disclaimer.

I was listening to a lecture yesterday and was reminded about a Gnostic belief that I am not in agreement with.

The idea Gnostics have about the demiruge is disagreeable to me. They use that teaching to explain why there is suffering in the world. This is a problem because if they do not know the reason for suffering they can't learn from it.

 

[lifeisgood]

There are a few places where Jesus teaches to leave all worldly good's behind.

Luke 9:3: ‘And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece’.
Mark 10-27
21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

It could mean to give alms will do harm to your spirit because you shouldn't have more then you need in the first place.Or they would look like hypocrites when they taught others to turn from worldly things.

Then He says to go in the towns and if they receive you do your good works then eat or take any hospitality they give you ,mainly food.

This is how I see these verses:

Mark 10:21 — Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him (loved the rich young ruler despite the fact that he really had not kept the Commandments, as he was claiming; and of course, Jesus knew that!), One thing you lack: go your way, sell whatsoever you have, and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in Heaven (puts the finger directly on the rich young ruler problem --- too preoccupied with material things instead of God's things): and come, take up the Cross, and follow Me (without explanation, Christ tells the young man here, and all others for that matter, that Salvation is in the Cross alone; and it is only by and through the Cross, that we can truly follow Christ and not through riches).

Luke 9:3 — And He said unto them, Take nothing for your journey (referring to the Call of Ministry), neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece (instead of waiting until those things can be afforded, carry out the work of the Lord, and trust the Lord to provide).

Again, just my 2 cents.

 

[JosephR]

Disclaimer.

I was listening to a lecture yesterday and was reminded about a Gnostic belief that I am not in agreement with.

The idea Gnostics have about the demiruge is disagreeable to me. They use that teaching to explain why there is suffering in the world. This is a problem because if they do not know the reason for suffering they can't learn from it.

I had to look up what real Gnostics are and what the demiruge is,and I realized I had no idea what they really were.And still prolly dont.
I seen the apocrypha and gnostic gospels as just books rejected by the church.Because there is no need for a church in there teachings.I still dont see much difference.I think the Church serves a purpose,as most people would not hear the words of Jesus without it.I see the latter as the second level for those who thirst for more knowledge.

Anyways I agree with you about there outlook on the creating factor being evil.Everything that lives suffers to some point,not to sound like a Buddhist,as I prefer the Tao

I am still learning and researching the gnostic ideals, just thought I would comment on what you said about the demiruge, I am sure this life serves a purpose and because we can find love and give it back I agree with you that it is not evil,it can be,but everything is what you make or create.

 

[JosephR]

This is how I see these verses:

Mark 10:21 — Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him (loved the rich young ruler despite the fact that he really had not kept the Commandments, as he was claiming; and of course, Jesus knew that!), One thing you lack: go your way, sell whatsoever you have, and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in Heaven (puts the finger directly on the rich young ruler problem --- too preoccupied with material things instead of God's things): and come, take up the Cross, and follow Me (without explanation, Christ tells the young man here, and all others for that matter, that Salvation is in the Cross alone; and it is only by and through the Cross, that we can truly follow Christ and not through riches).

Luke 9:3 — And He said unto them, Take nothing for your journey (referring to the Call of Ministry), neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece (instead of waiting until those things can be afforded, carry out the work of the Lord, and trust the Lord to provide).

Again, just my 2 cents.

I agree with you here. To take up the cross to me means to go and tell the truth.To set people free and spread the good news.

As far as the cross and worldly possessions I think we are in agreement here.And the rich young ruler I agree as well, I would think He was in violation of the First Commandment and loved his riches more then God.And as you said Jesus knew this and pointed this out. I think this agrees with the other teachings as well.

 

[JosephR]

I agree with unknown on 17 and 18...
Here is 19.Should be alot to discuss on this one.

Jesus said, “Blessed is he who came into being before he came into being. If you become my disciples and listen to my words, these stones will minister to you. For there are five trees for you in Paradise which remain undisturbed summer and winter and whose leaves do not fall. Whoever becomes acquainted with them will not experience death”.

 

[unknown]

I agree with unknown on 17 and 18...
Here is 19.Should be alot to discuss on this one.

Jesus said, “Blessed is he who came into being before he came into being. If you become my disciples and listen to my words, these stones will minister to you. For there are five trees for you in Paradise which remain undisturbed summer and winter and whose leaves do not fall. Whoever becomes acquainted with them will not experience death”.

Jesus said, “Blessed is he who came into being before he came into being.

To me means, one who realizes that they have existed before. These people do not fear death. Not many people in this world have a single memory of a past life but the younger generation of souls are coming into the world more aware of a past life.


If you become my disciples and listen to my words, these stones will minister to you.

I see this as not as meaning the stones will get up and cook your breakfast but that wisdom is to be found in every part of the creation.


For there are five trees for you in Paradise which remain undisturbed summer and winter and whose leaves do not fall. Whoever becomes acquainted with them will not experience death”.

There are five spiritual worlds and five levels of soul. Until the desire to know The Creator has been placed in a soul, that soul will have no sensation of these worlds or levels of soul. Again, anyone aware of this will fear neither death of the body nor separation from God.

 

[unknown]

This is how I see these verses:

Mark 10:21 — Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him (loved the rich young ruler despite the fact that he really had not kept the Commandments, as he was claiming; and of course, Jesus knew that!), One thing you lack: go your way, sell whatsoever you have, and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in Heaven (puts the finger directly on the rich young ruler problem --- too preoccupied with material things instead of God's things): and come, take up the Cross, and follow Me (without explanation, Christ tells the young man here, and all others for that matter, that Salvation is in the Cross alone; and it is only by and through the Cross, that we can truly follow Christ and not through riches).

Luke 9:3 — And He said unto them, Take nothing for your journey (referring to the Call of Ministry), neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece (instead of waiting until those things can be afforded, carry out the work of the Lord, and trust the Lord to provide).

Again, just my 2 cents.

I love how you put your words in red instead of the other way around.

 

[JosephR]

Jesus said, 1“Blessed is he who came into being before he came into being.

To me means, one who realizes that they have existed before. These people do not fear death. Not many people in this world have a single memory of a past life but the younger generation of souls are coming into the world more aware of a past life.


2If you become my disciples and listen to my words, these stones will minister to you.

I see this as not as meaning the stones will get up and cook your breakfast but that wisdom is to be found in every part of the creation.


3For there are five trees for you in Paradise which remain undisturbed summer and winter and whose leaves do not fall. Whoever becomes acquainted with them will not experience death”.

There are five spiritual worlds and five levels of soul. Until the desire to know The Creator has been placed in a soul, that soul will have no sensation of these worlds or levels of soul. Again, anyone aware of this will fear neither death of the body nor separation from God.

1 I agree with you here and it is repeated many times.

2 stones could mean anything physical or could mean thoughts or words as well.IN the other logia stones meant thoughts like guilt or emotions.

3 I am not aware of the 5 levels, where can I read more about that? I was curious and looked it up tho. I was thinking of the 2 known trees, good and evil and life and found this.
1. The tree of Life – Perfect awareness, seeing with clarity and from which nothing is hidden, including the Self.
2. The tree of Knowledge – Of good and evil, revealing all that is knowable, both right and wrong.
3. The tree of Wisdom – Perfect reasoning, revealing the Absolute Truth of what is right.
4. The tree of Love – Perfect desire, righteous pleasures.
5. The tree of Peace – Perfect willpower, expressing righteous ways of contentment.

Not quite sure I agree with this but it deff means five aspects of the mind or kingdom of God.Or like you say the levels of the soul.

 

[unknown]

I had to look up what real Gnostics are and what the demiruge is,and I realized I had no idea what they really were.And still prolly dont.
I seen the apocrypha and gnostic gospels as just books rejected by the church.Because there is no need for a church in there teachings.I still dont see much difference.I think the Church serves a purpose,as most people would not hear the words of Jesus without it.I see the latter as the second level for those who thirst for more knowledge.

Anyways I agree with you about there outlook on the creating factor being evil.Everything that lives suffers to some point,not to sound like a Buddhist,as I prefer the Tao

I am still learning and researching the gnostic ideals, just thought I would comment on what you said about the demiruge, I am sure this life serves a purpose and because we can find love and give it back I agree with you that it is not evil,it can be,but everything is what you make or create.

it has been probably 6 or 7 years ago that I came across Gnosticism. I moved on pretty quickly. What I hear from those who try to teach it is what everyone else is saying about it and I see no one who is able to produce much that can be useful at any practical level. The same thing is done with Kabbalah in many circles. No practical use exits for much of the information put out by "experts". What they mean is expert researchers who are trying to extrapolate a single idea from many thoughts on a matter. Sometimes it is nice to know the history behind the beliefs that we are studying.

 

[JosephR]

20
The disciples said to Jesus, “Tell us what the kingdom of heaven is like”.
He said to them, “It is like a mustard seed. It is the smallest of all seeds. But when it falls on tilled soil, it produces a great plant and becomes a shelter for birds of the sky”.

 

[lifeisgood]

I love how you put your words in red instead of the other way around.

Just a marketing gimmick.