The Gospel of the Kingdom and the plot twist.

[JudgeRightly]

Jews who believe in what Jesus accomplished while He was here on earth?

No.

Jews who believe that Jesus was the promised Messiah who came to establish His eternal Kingdom.

They would be called Christians by religion.
Only Jewish by nationality.

I'm not talking about Christians.

Religions.

Two.

Sects.
Adherents to one philosophy or another.

Two.

How many sects did Jesus found?

None.

Thanks for admitting that you ignore that portion of the Bible.

Don't try to turn this around on me. It's not going to work. I believe the ENTIRE Bible. You don't, because:

I asked: "Why do you ignore the rest of the Bible?"

You answered:

Because of what both Jesus and Jeremiah said...

And then you quoted a verse about a "false pen of the scribes."

I accept the verses. What I don't accept is your intentional ripping them out of context, and your subsequent interpretation of them.

No, it just means that y'all have not clearly explained your position.

So then instead of bearing false witness and saying "your position rejects most of the Bible," you should ask for someone to explain it to you, which we would be MORE THAN HAPPY to do.

Instead, you decided to be intellectually dishonest, and accuse us of rejecting the Bible, when in fact the entire point of MAD is to let the Bible speak for itself.

Which we've already established as the Justice of God, something you clear said does not exist.

Quit lying.

I'll concede the point if you agree to just call it "justice" from now on.

You apparently ignored this. ---^

Because he reacts to his own ideas about justice AS DOES EVERY other human.

Hmmm, I wonder why that is...

Could it be that it's because God wrote the law on the hearts of men?

The gang member's ideas about justice come from his God-given conscience. You know, God, the standard of righteousness and justice?

It doesn't mean it's right... after all a supposedly wise man said this:

Which is why it's important to compare what men think about right and wrong, to what God says about it. No?

According to whom?

God. Whom else?

Hence the "objective standard."

What a Muslim thinks to be the Justice of God, is not what a Christian thinks to be the Justice of God.

Which is why God gave us His word.

In it, He tells us what is right and wrong, and shows us what just punishments would be for certain crimes.

Exactly... Good luck finding that objectivity.

Whoosh!

Right over your head!

Thank you but it is not. The observation is based upon my understanding as yours is upon you.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

This is why Revelation from the Holy Spirit is necessitated to understand the Justice of God. Difficulties arise, though, when two people disagree and yet both claim to be guided by the Holy Spirit.

Hence why God gave us the Bible, and why he made it so thick, so that disagreements could be resolved, and doctrines understood.

Of course I have. But that doesn't mean it's not absurd.

Doesn't mean it is absurd either.

And it's use is quite common.

"No food or drink permitted in the library" is the exception to the rule that food and drink are permitted outside the library.

Designated smoking areas are places that are exceptions to the "no smoking rule."

"I work every day of the year, but I have Christmas off" says that the exception to the "rule" of "work every day" is Christmas.

To be more precise, the phrase is "the exception proves the existence of the rule."

We establish standards of rule to eliminate "exceptions."

And yet, exceptions still exist for some rules, such as above.

I point to the mars satellite that was lost because it was programmed to accept numbers "ruled" in centimeters, and the bright technicians sent the measurements in inches.

Different kind of exception.

Exceptions don't prove anything except that humans are stupid.

Humans are definitely stupid.

But stupid doesn't make you sin.

Sin makes you stupid.

 

[Rhema]

Would you, could you, consent to being sawn asunder rather than renouncing your faith? I'm not sure I could do that rather than give up my faith in God. The martyrs down through the ages have done this both in OT and NT times. During the Reformation thousands of people were burnt at the stake.

Nothing new. It even goes back to the Donatists circa 311.

Donatism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Don't try to turn this around on me. It's not going to work. I believe the ENTIRE Bible.

I sure you believe that about yourself. Do you also champion Inerrancy? (Kind of a fools game, given the known mistakes.)

I'd rather Believe in the ENTIRE Teaching of Jesus. He is, after all, the Messiah.

Rhema

Note that you've not addressed the verses I posted, so... you obviously can't or you would.

Quit lying.

I'm lying about you saying that there is no Justice of God?

Again, there is no "Justice of God."

Well, you've obviously gone off the edge into some kind of delusion, so I'll just let it go.

The gang member's ideas about justice come from his God-given conscience. You know, God, the standard of righteousness and justice?

Then again, .... If their ideas of Justice (or right and wrong) came from the Sin of Adam, how can you trust them? They came from Sin.

Are ALL of their ideas of Justice correct? Would that include you stoning a gay person? What of the ideas of Justice held by the gay community? Are those correct as well?

I got better things to do, dude.... God bless.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Then again, .... If their ideas of Justice (or right and wrong) came from the Sin of Adam, how can you trust them? They came from Sin.

Here, here.
I've read that God winked at their accusing and excusing one another as well as them being a law unto themselves.
Hmmm.

 

[Right Divider]

I would disagree with this and here is why.

I would point you to Hebrews 11.

Would you, could you, consent to being sawn asunder rather than renouncing your faith? I'm not sure I could do that rather than give up my faith in God. The martyrs down through the ages have done this both in OT and NT times. During the Reformation thousands of people were burnt at the stake.

The book to the Hebrews has no direct application to the body of Christ.
So your disagreement based on that is not valid.

 

[Hoping]

No.
Jews who believe that Jesus was the promised Messiah who came to establish His eternal Kingdom.

Do you really see a difference between what I said and what you posted here?
I don't.
Jesus established His eternal kingdom in the hearts of all those who submitted to Him as their Lord.

I'm not talking about Christians.

I know, as you are always referring to Jews only by nation and not by their religion.
Whether it is Judaism or Christianity.

Two.

I see only one, with joint Israelite and Gentile believers submitted to one God and one Lord Jesus Christ.

None.

Christianity didn't exist before Jesus established it.
I hoped you would have known that.

 

[SKC]

The book to the Hebrews has no direct application to the body of Christ.

How did you arrive at this conclusion? The Body of Christ includes all those Hebrew Christians who were being addressed by Paul. Indeed Gentile Christians are "wild olive branches" grafted into "the good olive tree" of believing Israel. As a matter of fact, the epistle to the Hebrews is one of the key books in the Bible. It presents the meaning of the finished work of Christ and His present ministry in Heaven.

 

[Right Divider]

How did you arrive at this conclusion?

Simple reason and logic.

The Body of Christ includes all those Hebrew Christians who were being addressed by Paul.

Who was "being addressed by Paul"?

Indeed Gentile Christians are "wild olive branches" grafted into "the good olive tree" of believing Israel.

In the body of Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek.

As a matter of fact, the epistle to the Hebrews is one of the key books in the Bible.

Not for the body of Christ. It is a book targeted at the believing remnant of Israel.

It presents the meaning of the finished work of Christ and His present ministry in Heaven.

Not for the body of Christ. The "the meaning of the finished work of Christ and His present ministry in Heaven" is in Paul's epistles. Paul's ministry is something NEW... that is why he calls the body of Christ a NEW man and a NEW creature.

Until you learn to rightly divide the word of truth, you will continue to be very confused.

 

[SKC]

Until you learn to rightly divide the word of truth, you will continue to be very confused.

Actually your response shows that your are the one who is confused. So I will not even address each point. "There is neither Jew nor Gentile" is not in opposition to which is the good olive tree and which are the wild branches. You say "Who was being addressed by Paul?" when the Bible calls it "the Epistle to the Hebrews". That's who was being addressed by Paul.

 

[Right Divider]

Actually your response shows that your are the one who is confused.

No, it does not.

So I will not even address each point.

Of course you won't... you can't.

You say "Who was being addressed by Paul?" when the Bible calls it "the Epistle to the Hebrews". That's who was being addressed by Paul.

Paul did not write the book to the Hebrews.

Paul's epistles all start with... Paul.

https://theologyonline.com/threads/paul-did-not-write-hebrews-we-do-not-know-who-did.52480/

 

[Rhema]

Here, here.

Uh... thank you?

I've read that God winked at their accusing and excusing one another...

They were lied to. How would Adam and Eve know anything about lying? At best one might say they ought to have been confused and asked God about the whole thing, but why would they have thought beyond what was being told to them at face value? So people who had no concept about lying were lied to and ... so? They became people of Establishing Good and Evil, not "knowing" it. The second question that God asked is the key. (But that's for another thread.)

as well as them being a law unto themselves

It was not so much the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, but the Tree of Establishing Good and Evil (for themselves).

But as I said, that's for another thread,

Kindly,
Rhema

 

[Clete]

How did you arrive at this conclusion? The Body of Christ includes all those Hebrew Christians who were being addressed by Paul. Indeed Gentile Christians are "wild olive branches" grafted into "the good olive tree" of believing Israel. As a matter of fact, the epistle to the Hebrews is one of the key books in the Bible. It presents the meaning of the finished work of Christ and His present ministry in Heaven.

Paul did not write Hebrews.

I don't typically post links to other people's arguments but there's too much material and not enough time and I don't want to leave that claim without some support, therefore....

11 reasons why Paul did not write Hebrews

The most compelling argument, in my view, has to do with Paul having been given what he repeatedly refers to as "his (my) Gospel", by direct divine revelation from the risen Jesus Christ Himself.

 

[Rhema]

Paul did not write Hebrews.

Apollos did.

 

[steko]

Apollos did.

Unproven.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

They were lied to. How would Adam and Eve know anything about lying? At best one might say they ought to have been confused and asked God about the whole thing, but why would they have thought beyond what was being told to them at face value? So people who had no concept about lying were lied to and ... so?

Eve was deceived, Adam was not and...so?

They became people of Establishing Good and Evil, not "knowing" it.

Yes, they went about trying to establish their own righteousness by blaming somebody else.
However, they both had been intimately involved with evil.
Eve was seduced using her own reasoning.
Adam partook because he loved how he looked in his wife's eyes.
This was the "knowing". ( Intimacy )
Being in love with the things that are of the world.

King James Bible
But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.

It was not so much the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, but the Tree of Establishing Good and Evil (for themselves).

But as I said, that's for another thread,

Not necessarily.
Why cutoff your foot?
Israel along with all mankind went about establishing their own righteousness.

King James Bible
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

The most compelling argument, in my view, has to do with Paul having been given what he repeatedly refers to as "his (my) Gospel", by direct divine revelation from the risen Jesus Christ Himself.

Yet Paul says it was God the Father..

King James Bible
But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

IOW God had to reveal His son in Paul before he could preach him.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

The true Israel is the prophesied believing remnant of ethnic Israel.

Did Israel say, Ephraim is the fullness of the Nations?
Did he not really put his name on him?

 

[steko]

So, Israel was lying when he said Ephraim is the fullness of the Nations?
Did he not really put his name on him?

Scripture reference, please and ...what are you implying?

Do you not understand the following?

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Scripture reference, please and ...what are you implying?

King James Bible
And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

King James Bible
And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

Do you not understand the following?

I reckon so.
Why do you suppose Paul referenced the blinded as Jacob rather than Israel?

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

 

[SKC]

Paul did not write the book to the Hebrews.

Another erroneous allegation. Who do you think would write these words (shown below) and speak of "our brother Timothy" with whom he would come shortly? This passage below is typical of the apostle Paul, who wrote over half of the New Testament.

18 Pray for us: for we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly.
19 But I beseech you the rather to do this, that I may be restored to you the sooner.
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
22 And I beseech you, brethren, suffer the word of exhortation: for I have written a letter unto you in few words.
23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty; with whom, if he come shortly, I will see you.
24 Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you.
25 Grace be with you all. Amen.