Epoisses
New member
OK, Pharisee or Saducee or whatever you are. Definitely not a Christian.
The Gospel is the POWER of God Unto Salvation. Not Religion
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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OK, Pharisee or Saducee or whatever you are. Definitely not a Christian.
beloved57
Well-known member
Jesus indicated that faith is a doing of the law, it ought to be done Matt 23:23
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Now does Jesus indicate here that Faith is one of the weightier matters of the Law that ought to be done ? Yes or No ?
Epoisses
New member
Weightier matters of the Torah, dude! The faith of Abraham was found in Genesis. Abraham believed God and it was credited to him for righteousness.
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, Luke 24:44-45
beloved57
Well-known member
Faith is a Work of the Law that ought to be done Matt 23:23 !
Beloved57, I challenge you to read through the Red Letters in the gospel and write down every word of Jesus that uses I command, or a commandment I give you.
If you do this, I would be more interested in learning what it is that you are saying.
I would like verses that you find.
If Jesus is God in physical form, then what did He command in such form?
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beloved57
Well-known member
The Gospel is the POWER of God Unto Salvation. Not Religion
Beloved57,
Sigh...... I try to look at all the views because I am searching. I thirst for opinions to be founded in scripture, history and semi factual quotes so that I may grow and understand God better.
I may have come off sarcastic, but I was trying to see if you see the conundrum I am in. Raised under the law, I have been led to be curious about implications about Jesus/Yeshewa. However, it appears the Law of Moses is not Compatible with faith in Yeshewa. One is a work of man, and the other is the work of God according to the 27 books.
This is in diametric opposition to the teachings of Moses.
If I misunderstood your view, please correct me.
Beloved57,
Sigh...... I try to look at all the views because I am searching. I thirst for opinions to be founded in scripture, history and semi factual quotes so that I may grow and understand God better.
I may have come off sarcastic, but I was trying to see if you see the conundrum I am in. Raised under the law, I have been led to be curious about implications about Jesus/Yeshewa. However, it appears the Law of Moses is not Compatible with faith in Yeshewa. One is a work of man, and the other is the work of God according to the 27 books.
This is in diametric opposition to the teachings of Moses.
If I misunderstood your view, please correct me.
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Jesus is God's law incarnate in human flesh. We can never be like Christ because we are sinners, nor is the law going to make you like Christ.
Paul said, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" we live by faith in Christ and his Gospel and not by rules, laws or religion.
Nanja
Well-known member
The Faith that the Just shall live by, is a Fruit of the Spirit of God, received passively by God's Election of Grace 2 Tim. 1:9, Given them in New Birth Gal. 5:22. Why? Because Christ's Righteousness was imputed to them even while they were enemies and unbelievers Rom. 4:8, 5:10. That's something that no man in the flesh can attain to, but was made possible solely by the Obedience of Christ on behalf of those He died for Rom. 5:19!
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If you are right, which you are not. then God is an unjust tyrant that delights in sending people to hell.
It is not humanly possible to love or trust in this kind of a God. Which makes me wonder how you can possibly be saved.
Nanja
Well-known member
It's not me you are in contention with, but with the Authority of the Word of God 2 Tim. 3:16.
It's not possible for the natural man such as yourself 1 Cor. 2:14 to spiritually comprehend the Magnitude of the Greatness and Power of Almighty God and His Workings with His Creation as He so Desires, according to His Will and Purpose Dan. 4:35; Job 23:13, 21:30.
The Gospel of God's Election of Grace 2 Tim. 1:9 in the Everlasting Covenant of Grace, which is Spiritual, shall remain a mystery and a stumblingblock for you.
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God predestinates no one. If he did he would be unjust.
What God does do is he reconciles lost sinners unto himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.
The Gospel clearly and completely refutes predestination.
"God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself"
Your Calvinist God reconciles nothing, instead he damns people to hell because they were born after Adam, which is not their fault.
You don't have faith in God. What you have faith in is a doctrine that was conceived in the twisted mind of a heretic back in the 1500's.
Nanja
Well-known member
You Lie against the Word of God!
Rom. 8:29-30
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Eph. 1:4-5
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will
You lie against the Word of God!
The only World Christ reconciled to Himself are His Sheep He gave His Life for John 10:11, 15.
1 Pet.2:24-25
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned (or reconciled) unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
Lies and blasphemy against the True God and His Word!
God does whatever His Soul Desires Job 23:13.
Dan. 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Pate, you are a liar and an adversary of Christ the Lord.
You don't believe that every word of the scriptures proceeded out of the mouth of God Mat. 4:4!
Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jesus spoke of those such as yourself who believe not the whole counsel of God:
John 8:44-47
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Woe unto you!
~~~~~
Nanja
You are in opposition to the Gospel and justification by faith.
Jesus has atoned for the sins of everyone, Hebrews 2:9. Not just "Some certain persons".
If God did predestinate, which he doesn't, why didn't he predestinate everyone to be saved? Why just some? why not all?
There are so many gapeing holes in your doctrine like the one above, that you don't have an answer for.
You want to think that you are special and all others are not. Which come from Pharisaism. You are not special.
What you need to do is accept God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided for you by Jesus Christ, until you do you are lost.
You are in opposition to the Gospel and justification by faith.
Jesus has atoned for the sins of everyone, Hebrews 2:9. Not just "Some certain persons".
If God did predestinate, which he doesn't, why didn't he predestinate everyone to be saved? Why just some? why not all?
There are so many gapeing holes in your doctrine like the one above, that you don't have an answer for.
You want to think that you are special and all others are not. Which come from Pharisaism. You are not special.
What you need to do is accept God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided for you by Jesus Christ, until you do you are lost.
Ben Masada
New member
Jesus was a Jew whose gospel was Judaism according to the Tanach. Therefore, there is no truth in the claim that when Peter preached the gospel of Jesus, thousands of Jews converted to him. How could conversion happen within the same Faith? Perhaps a renewal of the spirit was what you had in mind!
Nanja
Well-known member
You teach the error that a natural man's own faith or obedience they place in Christ is the cause of their Justification before God. That's a lie!
But the Justification by Faith the scriptures speak of Rom. 5:1 pertains only to those Christ died for John 10:11, 15; Eph. 5:25: Eph. 1:4-7, when they are Given the Fruit of Faith in New Birth Gal. 5:22.
No, not all of mankind! The "Every" Christ tasted death for, are also the "Many" Christ shed His Blood for in Mat. 26:28; the same "Many" He made Righteous in Rom. 5:19b!
So, that's Limited, or particular Atonement of only a remnant of mankind!
God certainly did as you have been repeatedly shown Eph. 1:5, 11; Rom. 8:29-30,
but you are in denial of the authority of God's Word, and remain in a state of unbelief.
God Loved the World of His His Election of Grace, the Chosen Seed of Christ.
But all the rest are the seed of the devil which he sowed in the earth Mat. 13:38-39 which will go into the second death Rev. 21:8!
The only "gapeing holes" are those that exist in the darkened understanding of your blinded mind Eph. 4:18; 2 Cor. 4:3-4!
God refers to His Chosen People as Special Deut. 7:6-7, because they are the Seed of His Son, Jesus Christ. His Purpose and Grace was Given them before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9. Not because of anything they did or didn't do, but simply because He chose to Love them, His Vessels of Mercy Rom. 9:23! Yes, I am one of God's Elect.
No I'm not lost. Only after I was Born of the Spirit was I then able to begin to do His Covenant Commands of coming to Him, learning of Him, believing in Him, repenting, walking in His statutes, etc. and please Him. Only with Faith, given in New Birth is it possible to please God:
Rom. 8:8-9
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Eph. 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
John 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
~~~~~
Ben Masada
New member
Jesus was a sinner too. If not, Ecclesiastes 7:20 is wrong. Then, the Lord did not create man to live by faith but by the use of his or her Freewill. To live by faith is akin to function as a robot. (Deut. 30:19)
beloved57
Well-known member
Hating the True God and Gospel and promoting salvation by works, by what a person does.