ECT The Gospel in Romans 10

[God's Truth]

Actually, YOU have NOT.
To be a FALSE WITNESS as conveyed by Paul in 1 Cor 15, means to actually claim to have seen Christ and then deny Him as risen. Paul did see Christ, along with some of those with him, YOU on the other hand have NOT. The Greek word here is ψευδόμαρτυς (pseudomartys), and connotes only one meaning, FALSE WITNESS. Only JWs claim they are witnesses of something they actually are not, however, they ARE ψευδόμαρτυς (pseudomartys).

Tambora said the 'we' in those scriptures were about all believers. I have proven with scripture that the 'we' are the witnesses---the Apostles.

 

[God's Truth]

Perhaps you're both seeing a water ritual; where such a ritual might not be what the Apostle Paul is referring to.

A thought: The best way to study all these issues out is from Paul's overall narrative - Romans thru Philemon.

"The Greek" will fall for short of that; "the Historical Grammatical Structure" will fall for short of that; "the best translation" argument will fall for short of that; as will this or that external writer.

2 Tim. 3:16, 17 in light of Col. 1:25, 26.

Paul was speaking about a water ritual.

A water baptism is a ceremony which is symbolic of what the person believes in the heart and mind. It is a promise to God that you will die to the sins of the world and live through Jesus.

 

[Tambora]

Paul would not use a pagan practice to prove a Christian belief.

He would and did.

In Acts 17 Paul uses the pagan altar of the Unknown God to make a point about the true God of Christians.

In 1 Cor 10 Paul uses eating what is offered to idols to make a point about the liberty Christians have.

Those are just a couple of the several times Paul uses pagan customs or the words of pagan poets to make a point about Christianity.

 

[Tambora]

29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?


People are baptized for Jesus to resurrect them from the dead.

They are baptized for the sake of the dead condition their bodies will be in when they die until the resurrection of the dead.

They got baptized for the dead (themselves), to be raised.

Paul was indeed included as one baptized. (Acts 9:18)
Since Paul (an apostle) was included in being baptized for Jesus, then Paul would have said we, not they.

In other words, Paul's very use of "they" would exclude him in the group of those baptized for Jesus.

 

[God's Truth]

Paul was indeed included as one baptized. (Acts 9:18)
Since Paul (an apostle) was included in being baptized for Jesus, then Paul would have said we, not they.

In other words, Paul's very use of "they" would exclude him in the group of those baptized for Jesus.

The 'we' are the WITNESSES to the Word of God. Those are the Apostles.

Paul is not defending the Truth by the practice of the pagans. What shall the pagans do then if they are baptized for their loved ones? lol

 

[Tambora]

Paul was indeed included as one baptized. (Acts 9:18)
Since Paul (an apostle) was included in being baptized for Jesus, then Paul would have said we, not they.

In other words, Paul's very use of "they" would exclude him in the group of those baptized for Jesus.

The 'we' are the WITNESSES to the Word of God. Those are the Apostles.

Paul is not defending the Truth by the practice of the pagans. What shall the pagans do then if they are baptized for their loved ones? lol

LOL!
You are still not getting it!

baby steps

Yes or no - Was Paul baptized for Jesus?

 

[God's Truth]

LOL!
You are still not getting it!

baby steps

Yes or no - Was Paul baptized for Jesus?

Whatever will those pagans do who are baptizing their dead loved ones into their wicked practices?

You have Apostle Paul worried about them. lol

 

[Tambora]

Whatever will those pagans do who are baptizing their dead loved ones into their wicked practices?

Yes or no - Was Paul baptized for Jesus?

 

[God's Truth]

Yes or no - Was Paul baptized for Jesus?

You have Paul worried about those pagans and their wicked practice. Whatever will they do?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

So, in other words. You can't prove me wrong in Romans, so you jump over to 1 John 1?


Ever heard of the Royal "WE", Jerry? Like "we" need a bath, today." Or it's time for OUR bath..... when talking to someone in an old folks home, for instance? "We" both are not taking a bath.

Was John using the so-called Royal "We" here?:

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us, and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ" (1 Jn.1:1-3).​

Anyone with the slightest bit of discernment can understand that pronoun refers to believers. And there is no reason to suppose that the identity of the ones referred to as "we" ever changes in the verses which follow:

"And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us" (1 Jn.1:4-10).​

According to you the pronoun "we" changed from referring to believers to referring to unbelievers at verse 6.

And then in an attempt to cover up your blunder you speak of a Royal "We."

All you prove is that in order to cover your blunders that you are willing to say anything, no matter how ridiculous!

 

[Tambora]

You have Paul worried about those pagans and their wicked practice. Whatever will they do?

Yes or no - Was Paul baptized for Jesus?

 

[God's Truth]

Yes or no - Was Paul baptized for Jesus?

Whatever will those pagans do who were baptized for their dead loved ones? lol

 

[StanJ]

Yes or no - Was Paul baptized for Jesus?

Yes he was, but in what medium? Water or the Holy Spirit? Acts 9:18 (NIV)

 

[God's Truth]

Yes he was, but in what medium? Water or the Holy Spirit? Acts 9:18 (NIV)

Paul was baptized in water and with the Holy Spirit.

 

[StanJ]

Paul was baptized in water and with the Holy Spirit.

How do you figure water? Did he have a big bath tub in his room?

 

[Tambora]

Paul was baptized in water and with the Holy Spirit.

was he baptized for Jesus?

 

[Danoh]

was he baptized for Jesus?

"Daily."

 

[God's Truth]

How do you figure water? Did he have a big bath tub in his room?

Why do you think they could not have had a bath tub in their homes?

 

[Danoh]

Why do you think they could not have had a bath tub in their homes?

Your question in response to his joking just shows why you misunderstand the passages you do - you take one thing to mean something else.

You need to think about this a bit - Tetelestai has this same problem; which is why he recurrently turns one statement into all these screwed up ideas about what basis Mid-Acts is asserting what it is asserting.

 

[StanJ]

Why do you think they could not have had a bath tub in their homes?

First of all Paul wasn't at his home, he was at the house of Judas on Straight Street, and basic history tells you when bath tubs came into effect.