The Eternal Purpose of creation !

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blackbirdking

New member
beloved57 said:
blackb



You the one being evasive !
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Evasive or not, the Bible says nowhere that God authored sin. You made it up by means of irrational logic. You need to accept truth and not alter it to fit your theological logic; then apologize to everybody that reads your poor logic and beg their forgiveness for trying to lead them away from truth. What are you going to answer God at the judgment when He asks why you taught that He authored adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like? Shame....shame.... one would think you would know better.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
blackbirdking said:
Evasive or not, the Bible says nowhere that God authored sin. You made it up by means of irrational logic. You need to accept truth and not alter it to fit your theological logic; then apologize to everybody that reads your poor logic and beg their forgiveness for trying to lead them away from truth. What are you going to answer God at the judgment when He asks why you taught that He authored adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like? Shame....shame.... one would think you would know better.
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Evasion !
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
Adam must sin according to being made for the Lord Jesus Christ and His Eternal Purpose of Redemption, for all things, including Adam and those in him were made by and for the Lord Jesus Christ Col 1:16 !

Also according to the Divine Purpose Adam must be given a Law in order for him to Transgress the Command of God, for if he would have obeyed the law or command, then that would have been counter to God's Purpose in Christ, whereas Christ had already been constituted the Lamb slain from the foundation Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Also 1 Pet 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Yes, the Redeeming blood of Christ was foreordained before the foundation, hence before Adam was Created, who can deny that ?

If Adam would have rendered perfect obedience and gained Eternal Life, that would have defeated the Eternal Purpose of creating all things for Jesus Christ.

Scripture does declare that Christ was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, before it began, and that all things were made by Him and for Him Col 1:16 as He was before all things Col 1:17, then all things were made by Him and for Him in that Capacity of being slain before the foundation !

Thats why Adam must sin, and transgress the Law of God, for in the Eternal Purpose of God, He had already been wounded for our transgressions Isa 53:5

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

The wounded for our transgressions is the same as the being the slain Lamb from the foundation !
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Excellently explained! The Lamb was slain in the Eternal Purpose of God before the world and Adam were even created.
Also, Adam had all of the Elect Seed in him as their Federal Head; those which God had already chosen and predestined
to become saved from their sins by the Blood and Death of Jesus Christ, before the foundation of the world (Eph. 1:4-9 KJV),
according to the counsel of His Own Will (Eph. 1:11 KJV). Yes, Adam's sinning was surely ordained of God.

~~~~~
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Nanja said:
Excellently explained! The Lamb was slain in the Eternal Purpose of God before the world and Adam were even created.
Also, Adam had all of the Elect Seed in him as their Federal Head; those which God had already chosen and predestined
to become saved from their sins by the Blood and Death of Jesus Christ, before the foundation of the world (Eph. 1:4-9 KJV),
according to the counsel of His Own Will (Eph. 1:11 KJV). Yes, Adam's sinning was surely ordained of God.

~~~~~
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Bless you , you are the only one here that responds favorablely to the Gospel Truth !

Posted from the TOL App!
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
Bless you , you are the only one here that responds favorablely to the Gospel Truth !

Posted from the TOL App!
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God is glorified in His People through His Spirit (John 14:17 KJV).
They are witnesses to Christ and His Gospel. And He has anointed you, and blessed you,
in the preaching of the Word of Truth (Eph. 1:13 KJV); (Rom. 10:15 KJV).

God sends His Preacher to those who have ears to hear (Acts 28:28 KJV),
because spiritual Life has been given to them! (John 10:27-28 KJV)

All praise and glory to our God and Saviour Jesus Christ! (Hos. 13:4 KJV)

~~~~~
 
B

blackbirdking

New member
Nanja said:
Excellently explained! The Lamb was slain in the Eternal Purpose of God before the world and Adam were even created.
Also, Adam had all of the Elect Seed in him as their Federal Head; those which God had already chosen and predestined
to become saved from their sins by the Blood and Death of Jesus Christ, before the foundation of the world (Eph. 1:4-9 KJV),
according to the counsel of His Own Will (Eph. 1:11 KJV). Yes, Adam's sinning was surely ordained of God.

~~~~~
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So you too believe that God ordained sin.

So since sin was ordained(established) by good, you must also believe that sin is good. The same cause that caused sin, also caused good. Sin and good are of the same cause, therefore sin and good are synonamous; there really is no difference. Now you have a predicament; whether you sin or not doesn't matter, because either way you are being led by the same cause: that cause is God. Everybody is elect because everybody is serving God; He causes them to do so.

Now would you explain to me, how someone who teaches Calvinism, can say that anyone needs to be saved from their sins (the sin that God authored and which is good)?

It doesn't matter. He just decided who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. Are you going to heaven for serving God, or are you going to hell for serving God? You can't ever know till you're there, since you're a Calvinist.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
blackbirdking said:
So you too believe that God ordained sin.

So since sin was ordained(established) by good, you must also believe that sin is good. The same cause that caused sin, also caused good. Sin and good are of the same cause, therefore sin and good are synonamous; there really is no difference. Now you have a predicament; whether you sin or not doesn't matter, because either way you are being led by the same cause: that cause is God. Everybody is elect because everybody is serving God; He causes them to do so.

Now would you explain to me, how someone who teaches Calvinism, can say that anyone needs to be saved from their sins (the sin that God authored and which is good)?

It doesn't matter. He just decided who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. Are you going to heaven for serving God, or are you going to hell for serving God? You can't ever know till you're there, since you're a Calvinist.
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Evasion !
 
JosephR

JosephR

New member
you just have to ask for the OP,,what did creation "cost" God?

Speaking into creation 6 days..

What did redemption cost Him,,His Son..

this is a love story without typed words to speak..
 
B

blackbirdking

New member
beloved57 said:
Evasion !
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I wonder, how would a Calvinist know if God is causing him to believe a lie?

Oh well, it wouldn't matter. What he believes doesn't affect his destiny; it was predetermined by a God who caused all the evil in this world because He needed to cause it so He could have a redemptive purpose.

Isn't it great to be the servant of a God who causes evil? Of course I know I'm not evil, I'm one of the elect; maybe.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Did God really want Adam to obey ?

Did God really want Adam to obey ?

Did God really want Adam to obey that command found in Gen 2:17 ? Lets read Gen 2:16-17

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

I don't believe it was God's Purpose nor design in giving adam that command, for him to render explicit obedience to it , for if He did, then Adam's inclination proved greater than God's Purpose, which would contradict a scripture such as Prov 19:21

21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand.

The word devises, the heb word is Machashabah and means:

thought, device thought
device, plan, purpose
invention ,schemes NASB

So if it was really God's Purpose and desgn for adam not to sin by eating of that tree, then adam's desire and the serpents evil scheme proved Greater than God's Purpose and overcame it !

Now such a thought cannot even begin to be entertained for one second to a heart that Truly knows the True God, and Fears Him with Holy Reverence !

Nor was it God's purpose and design in commanding Abraham to sacrifice Isaac his Son, to the point of death, even though Abraham may have perceived it that way, however God's Purpose was made manifest when at the very point Abraham was to deliver the fatal blow, An Angel halted him !
 
B

blackbirdking

New member
beloved57 said:
Did God really want Adam to obey that command found in Gen 2:17 ? Lets read Gen 2:16-17

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

I don't believe it was God's Purpose nor design in giving adam that command, for him to render explicit obedience to it , for if He did, then Adam's inclination proved greater than God's Purpose, which would contradict a scripture such as Prov 19:21
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That's what Calvinism will do to a person. One believes Calvinism rather than the whole Bible.
beloved57 said:
21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand.

The word devises, the heb word is Machashabah and means:

thought, device thought
device, plan, purpose
invention ,schemes NASB

So if it was really God's Purpose and desgn for adam not to sin by eating of that tree, then adam's desire and the serpents evil scheme proved Greater than God's Purpose and overcame it !

Now such a thought cannot even begin to be entertained for one second to a heart that Truly knows the True God, and Fears Him with Holy Reverence !
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...if your a Calvinist,

Job 37:23
As for the Almighty, we cannot find him out: he is excellent in power, and in judgment, and in abundant justice: he will not afflict.

Lamentations 3:33
For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men.

beloved57 said:
Nor was it God's purpose and design in commanding Abraham to sacrifice Isaac his Son, to the point of death, even though Abraham may have perceived it that way, however God's Purpose was made manifest when at the very point Abraham was to deliver the fatal blow, An Angel halted him !
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Why?
Genesis 22:12
'And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me'.

God did not, does not, nor ever will, cause sin. If God causes it, it's not sin. God cannot author, ordain, or will sin. Sin is bad; always. God is good; always. Luke 11:17, 'But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.'
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
So if it was really God's Purpose and desgn for adam not to sin by eating of that tree, then adam's desire and the serpents evil scheme proved Greater than God's Purpose and overcame it !

Now such a thought cannot even begin to be entertained for one second to a heart that Truly knows the True God, and Fears Him with Holy Reverence !

Nor was it God's purpose and design in commanding Abraham to sacrifice Isaac his Son, to the point of death, even though Abraham may have perceived it that way, however God's Purpose was made manifest when at the very point Abraham was to deliver the fatal blow, An Angel halted him !
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I concur. Perfect examples demonstrating God's Purpose over all of His creation, including
the dominion and power of sin (Col. 1:16), to show His Mercy to all His elect ones in Adam.
For Christ saves His People from their sins (Mat. 1:21). But not the devil's children (Rom. 9:14-15,22).

Everything God does shows forth His Glory!

~~~~~
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
If adam had not sinned, and he and his posterity in him could have gained the eternal inheritance by his obedience to the covenant of works he was under Hosea 6:7, then the Glory of Eternal Life and Inheritance had gone to Adam and Not Jesus Christ, it could read Rom 6:23b " The Gift of God is Eternal Life through Adam our father "
 
B

blackbirdking

New member
beloved57 said:
If adam had not sinned, and he and his posterity in him could have gained the eternal inheritance by his obedience to the covenant of works he was under Hosea 6:7, then the Glory of Eternal Life and Inheritance had gone to Adam and Not Jesus Christ, it could read Rom 6:23b " The Gift of God is Eternal Life through Adam our father "
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Silly Calvinist; if Adam had not sinned, why would he need to earn the eternal inheritance? If your not gonna die, why do you need eternal life?

Who would've given Adam glory? If God, what's wrong with that; Adam couldn't be self-righteous or proud if God hadn't caused it; remember?

Quit trying to make Adam's sin look like it was a good thing by your silly logic. You know Adam's sin was bad and you believe God caused it because you believe Calvinism. You know that a God who caused Adam to sin cannot be a good God.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
God Created Evil, even Moral Evil !

God Created Evil, even Moral Evil !

Isa 45:7

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.


God Created Evil, even Moral evil, for the word here for evil, the hebrew rah means:

I.bad, evil
A.
bad, disagreeable, malignant

B.
bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery)

C.
evil, displeasing

D.
bad (of its kind - land, water, etc)

E.
bad (of value)

F.
worse than, worst (comparison)

G.
sad, unhappy

H.
evil (hurtful)

I.
bad, unkind (vicious in disposition)

J.
bad, evil, wicked (ethically)
i.
in general, of persons, of thoughts

ii.
deeds, actions=Evil deeds or actions

I already know that the athiest in heart cannot receive this Truth, but i will testify to it anyway !

Now God being the Creator of moral evil, is not to say He is the actual doer of the evil, but the first causer of the doer of the evil, for His Purpose Prov 16:4

4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

It is a plain declaration here that God made the wicked, the word for wicked is rasha` :

I.wicked, criminal
A.
guilty one, one guilty of crime (subst)

B.
wicked (hostile to God)

C.
wicked, guilty of sin (against God or man)


The word make means to produce, create , to ordain ! The wicked, they were for His Purpose !

This world was Created, Made for a God Glorifying Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph 3:9-11

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

This purpose originated from within God's Own Wisdom Eph 3:10

To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

God did not have to consult His creature and their actions to gain His Wisdom, the though is Blasphemous !
 
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