The Eternal Purpose of creation !

Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
Yes, in fact, Adam was of that seed Chosen before the foundation of the world. The mistake is that people think that Adam was the Natural Federal Head of the Non Elect in the beginning, but he was not only of the Elect !
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I agree. Only all the elect died in Adam. (1 Cor. 15:22)
All the non-elect were of the seed of the serpent (Gen. 3:14-15).
Cain "was of that wicked one" (1 John 3:12).
Jesus referred to them as serpents (Mat. 23:31-36);
their father is the devil (John 8:44);
a "seed" (zera) of evildoers (Isaiah 1:4 -KJV)

So, Cain was not created in Adam in the beginning;
he is not included in the genealogy recorded in Gen. 5:1-32;
but he was the spiritual offspring of the devil.

~~~~~
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
nanja

So, Cain was not created in Adam in the beginning;
he is not included in the genealogy recorded in Gen. 5:1-32;
but he was the spiritual offspring of the devil.
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Agreed, I don't think anyone has ever agreed with me on this sublime Truth before.
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
beloved57

Agreed, I don't think anyone has ever agreed with me on this sublime Truth before.
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Not surprised, though. Yet, all the scriptures to support this truth are there,
so what remains may be an understanding issue for most.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
nanja

so what remains may be an understanding issue for most.
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Well, Yeah, especially if Christ does not give it to them. 1 Jn 5:19-20

20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

The only way I have an understanding of it is because it was granted to me ! And I believe its something that will be granted to all God's True People, as it is written:

Matt 13:12

For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
beloved57

Well, Yeah, especially if Christ does not give it to them. 1 Jn 5:19-20

20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

The only way I have an understanding of it is because it was granted to me ! And I believe its something that will be granted to all God's True People, as it is written:

Matt 13:12

For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
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Agree...it's exactly what I had in mind. ☺

Also, 2 Tim. 3:14:
But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them

~~~~~
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
World was created for a Purpose of showing Grace

World was created for a Purpose of showing Grace

Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

This world was created for a purpose of grace, because it was made for a redemptive purpose. This grace was given to all whom would be redeemed through that redemption that is in Christ Jesus, the grace was given them in Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Also a scripture in Eph 2 sums it up accurately Eph 2:7

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

This sums up the Purpose of creation. So the World was Created for a Redemptive Purpose in Christ, which is also called the Eternal Purpose here Eph 3:11

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

This verse above speaks to the purport 2 Tim 1:9. Now by the way, it was for this Eternal Purpose and cause as to why God is the First and Primary cause for sin and death coming into the world, and why He wanted adam and man in him to sin and purposed that sinned, which Paul points out here Rom 8:20

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

What hope ? Titus 1:2

2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Notice the term before the world began ! Where did we see those words before ? Here 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
 
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beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
World was created for a Purpose of showing Grace 2

World was created for a Purpose of showing Grace 2

Now it must be added and noted that God's Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11; 2 Tim 1:9 was formed by God in Eternity, in His Eternal Mind alone, without any consideration of anything He did foresee, without being influenced by anyone, not adam, not Lucifer, no angels. Uninfluenced by anyone or anything outside of Himself, and solely according to His OWN good pleasure Eph 1:5,11

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

All True Saints believe this Ps 115:3

3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased[or desired].

Dan 4:35

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth[executes,performs] according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Look especially at the Phrase Eph 1:11

In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: Not no one elses will , which would be the case if He was influenced by any actions outside of Himself !

If we believe and teach that God in forming His Eternal Purpose in Christ [which is Redemptive and about Grace] was influenced by what He foresaw in and by Adam or any other creature, we immediately are guilty of dishonoring God's Wisdom, supposing He could not have originated such a Gracious Purpose of Redemption apart from being influenced by His creatures, beings of time, and so then it would be another being inferior to Himself that taught Him wisdom Isa 40:13

Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him?

If God's Eternal Purpose of Redemption and Grace was the result of God foreseeing how His creatures would act, then to a degree they taught Him wisdom, their actions at the least initiated Him to act towards them in Redemption and Grace, thoughts obviously He had not before He created man. All such thinking is Blasphemous, insulting, and disrespectful to the highest degree and of the devil His arch enemy !

God also within the Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Chose His People in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:3-6

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Connected to what had been said earlier Eph 2:7

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
 
T

Truster

New member
Creation, creator, created ''bara'' in Hebrew and it emphasises the initiation of the object. The creation took place to reveal the attributes of Deity and once the process was complete there was need for further revelation over a period of time. This is the mystery. That in moving forward there is, by necessity, a change taking place and to the casual observer this would necessitate a 'change of mind'' as time pans out. But, we have an immutable and unchanging Elohim.

The existence of time is something I've been considering lately. The Almighty could, if He chose to do so, have put the matter of sin right in Eden. He could have created another man in their likeness and in their image and nailed Him to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Risen Him from death and allowed him to eat from the tree of life. But He chose to use sin and death as a means to redemption at a future date…amazing grace!
 
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beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
truster

Creation, creator, created ''bara'' in Hebrew and it emphasises the initiation of the object. The creation took place to reveal the attributes of Deity and once the process was complete there was need for further revelation over a period of time. This is the mystery. That in moving forward there is, by necessity, a change taking place and to the casual observer this would necessitate a 'change of mind'' as time pans out. But, we have an immutable and unchanging Elohim.
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Do you understand the things stated in post 67 ?
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Because this world was made for a Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus, which is also The Eternal Purpose here Eph 3:11

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

All things in time therefore made in light of that Purpose Col 1:16

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

This Purpose made sin and death necessary, God therefore Purposed these things to occur at the Creation of adam, that those whom Christ would redeem be by nature ,born in captivity to sin, in bondage to devil, and under the curse of the Law.

This is True because Christ's death for those He died for, Redemptive, It redeems them from the curse of the Law Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

This was a precious work for God Ps 49:8

For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever )

1 Pet 18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

We are all born by nature in captivity to the devil ! 2 Tim 2:26

26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.



We are all born by nature as transgressors of God's Law Isa 48:8

Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened: for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast called a transgressor from the womb.

God Created the world so that Christ would Glorify Him in the defeat of these enemies !
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Is God the Author of Sin ?

Yes, most certainly He is, However that's not to say He is the doer of sin Himself, He did not Himself commit sin [which is impossible since He can never transgress any law] But He is the Author and Creator of the being or beings that do and did commit sin or acts of sin. Both the sin of Adam, and Lucifer were determined by God for them to do. Did God foresee them sinning ? Yes He did, since He determined they do. This is not God's permissive will, but a predetermined counsel, for it is written Rom 8:20

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Created for a Purpose of Grace in Christ Jesus !

Created for a Purpose of Grace in Christ Jesus !

Eph 3:8-11

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

This World was Created according to an Eternal Purpose of Grace [A Mystery] in Christ Jesus.

2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

This was an Eternal Purpose wherein God's Elect were given Grace in Christ before the foundation;

And within this Eternal Purpose of Grace, Christ was the Foreknown or Foreordained before the World Began 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

That means it was before this Gen 1:1-3

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Now Christ also in the Same Eternal Purpose established before the foundation had been slain Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain [for sinners] from the foundation of the world.

And so Adam was Created/ Made within the Scope of this Eternal Purpose of Grace. It was by the Purpose of God that sin should enter the world and death by sin Rom 5:12. You see death was the way Christ was to die for the Purpose of Grace Heb 2:9.

Also in the Creation of Adam, God Created in him a principle of death, and assured him that he was surely going to eat and die Gen 2:17

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

He had to die because in the Eternal Purpose of God, Christ had to die .

So the Death and Sin entering the World by Adam Rom 5:12 was in according to God's Purpose of Grace in Christ. It was God's Purpose that sin should [by adam] enter the world and death by sin, it was no fluke, no mistake, no backup plan, no, it was all according to God's Infinite Wisdom Rom 11:33

33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

That word wisdom means:

ii.the wisdom of God as evinced in forming and executing counsels in the formation and government of the world and the scriptures.

Adam's Transgression was brought forth according to God's Purpose in Christ and in Creation Col 1:16

16 For by him[Christ] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him[Christ], and for him[Christ]:

For Christ before the World was ever Created, was already, in the Eternal Purpose of Grace, the Slain Lamb !
 
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