The earth is flat and we never went to the moon--Part II

[Right Divider]

Your graph does "not" show the sun overhead nor into the distance in perspective.

Of course it doesn't. That's NOT what I'm demonstrating!

My graph shows the sun overhead and how it will look into the distance in perspective.

Once AGAIN, oh DENSE DAVE, I'm showing you what YOUR MODEL REQUIRES AT SUNSET ONLY!!!

Your graph does not tell the whole story mine does.

--Dave

Apples and oranges Dave.

Your ignorance is appalling.

 

[DFT_Dave]

View attachment 26581

This graph is not only in correct perspective to the stick figures in it, it's also in correct perspective to us viewing it.

We are a part of this graph.

--Dave

 

[Right Divider]

View attachment 26581

This graph is not only in correct perspective to the stick figures in it, it's also in correct perspective to us viewing it.

We are a part of this graph.

--Dave

This does not change the FACT that in YOUR MODEL, the sun is STILL 9 degrees ABOVE the horizon.

Deal with THAT FACT!

 

[DFT_Dave]

Your graph may consider perspective but it does not accurately represent what is actually observed. Your graph predicts that the sun will be smaller in the morning and the evening and larger at mid day. Observations of the sun indicate that from sun up to sun down, the sun is always exactly the same size. This is a point you consistently ignore.

Secondly, the Flat Earth model requires that the sun be above the disc at all times. It is not possible for it to ever dip below a horizon. It is always above the Earth. This would mean that the sun would always be visible from all parts of the Earth. Again, this does not match observed phenomena. When it is night in the USA, not one telescope can find any trace of the sun in its field of view. You could go out at night with a great telescope of your own and you would never be able to see the sun. There are two possible answers. 1) The sun has some sort of shielding around it that prevents you from seeing it. (This is not actually possible as even with a cut off shield, you would still be able to see the light shining down onto the world below.) 2) The sun is not in the sky during the night. This is a huge problem for your position as if the sun is not in the sky, where did it go? Remember, the Flat Earth model requires that the sun is above the disc of the Earth by some 3000 miles and it traces a circle over the disk. Again, your predictions do not match what you can personally observe.

That the sun "appears" to be the exact same size from sun rise to noon and noon to sun set is very much disputed.

But because of perspective even on a spinning globe the sun would appear larger at noon simply because the viewer is actually closer to it than at sun rise and sun set.

So, nothing you have said changes the accuracy of this graph.

I don't expect you to concede this point or argument. Flat earth still must establish the distance and size of the sun, moon, and stars. So don't think that I think this is the end game, it's not. But if this was not something that could accurate, my graph, then flat earth is over here and now.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

Dave, you've gone over some "event horizon".
You aren't stupid. It's a shame you insist on behaving as if you are.

You think I've fallen into a "black hole" called flat earth?

That's a good line, "gone over some 'event horizon'", it has humor.

Writing arguments is not behavior, I'm not behaving badly by arguing flat earth in opposition to spinning globe earth.

It's not stupid to see what is meant by perspective and how it accurately explains what flat earth is based on. That does not mean the earth is flat but it means the foundation of it has merit and is why it's worth debating.

I'm damn smart, and you all know it, so I don't take your comments seriously, but I want flat earth to stand or fall in a fair fight/debate.

--Dave

 

[Right Divider]

That the sun "appears" to be the exact same size from sun rise to noon and noon to sun set is very much disputed.

Only among knuckheads.

But because of perspective even on a spinning globe the sun would appear larger at noon simply because the viewer is actually closer to it than at sun rise and sun set.

For the love of God Dave.... the sun is 93 MILLION miles away. The difference between overhead and at sunset is not detectable, let alone visible to the naked eye!

So, nothing you have said changes the accuracy of this graph.

I don't expect you to concede this point or argument. Flat earth still must establish the distance and size of the sun, moon, and stars.

Why haven't they Dave? Not enough time to research it?

This is actually just another of the numerous FACTS that show that the "flat earth" is a bankrupt "idea".

So don't think that I think this is the end game, it's not. But if this was not something that could accurate, my graph, then flat earth is over here and now.

--Dave

Get a clue Dave. Your ignorance is appalling!

 

[Right Divider]

You think I've fallen into a "black hole" called flat earth?

That's a good line, "gone over some 'event horizon'", it has humor.

Writing arguments is not behavior, I'm not behaving badly by arguing flat earth in opposition to spinning globe earth.

It's not stupid to see what is meant by perspective and how it accurately explains what flat earth is based on. That does not mean the earth is flat but it means the foundation of it has merit and is why it's worth debating.

I'm damn smart, and you all know it, so I don't take your comments seriously, but I want flat earth to stand or fall in a fair fight/debate.

--Dave

:rotfl:

If you were "damn smart" you wouldn't be posting stupid stuff like you are.

 

[DFT_Dave]

This does not change the FACT that in YOUR MODEL, the sun is STILL 9 degrees ABOVE the horizon.

Deal with THAT FACT!

In this model the sun hits and goes to a horizon we can see, then beyond it to a distance that we cannot see.

We are limited as to how far we can see into the distance, horizontally, across the earth because of perspective and the density of the earth's atmosphere in the troposphere. We can see farther vertically into the sky where the earth does not come into play and we are not viewing things through miles of dense atmosphere. The graph I made is accurate an we will not see 9 degrees of the sun at and beyond the horizon of a flat earth.

--Dave

 

[CabinetMaker]

That the sun "appears" to be the exact same size from sun rise to noon and noon to sun set is very much disputed.

No, it's not. If you get yourself a piece of welding glass and use it to look at the sun you will clearly see the solar disk. If you put two marks on that piece of glass that mark the diameter of the sun and then check it throughout the day, you will see that the sun is always the same diameter. You can do it with the moon as well and all you need is your thumb. Have you ever noticed that the moon looks really large at moon rise (which violates the heck out of you prospective rules!) yet smaller when higher in the sky? Hold your thumb out at arms length and compare your thumb to the size of the moon at moon rise. Later, when the moon is high, hold your thumb out again and compare your thumb to the moon. You will find that the moon is the same size. Go and try these things for yourself.

But because of perspective even on a spinning globe the sun would appear larger at noon simply because the viewer is actually closer to it than at sun rise and sun set.

The radius of the Earth is 3,959 miles. The average distance between the Earth and the sun is 92,960,000 miles. At noon, the sun is approximately 3,959 miles closer to the sun. That is a difference of (3,959/92,960,000)*100% = 0.00425%. That is a difference well beyond the resolution of even the best of cameras. So your statement is true, but immeasurable.

So, nothing you have said changes the accuracy of this graph.

Actually, everything I said changes the accuracy of your graph. You neglect the scale of the solar system. You failed to adequately explain why the sun goes above and below horizons when your model requires it to circle above the Earth. You failed to verify your graph against things that you can observe and measure with your own eyes and simple tools. Do you honestly believe your sketch explains why a sun rotating above a disk disappears from the bottom up at sunset and appears from the top down at sunrise?

I don't expect you to concede this point or argument. Flat earth still must establish the distance and size of the sun, moon, and stars. So don't think that I think this is the end game, it's not. But if this was not something that could accurate, my graph, then flat earth is over here and now.

--Dave

Why hasn't this happened? What is preventing flat Earth scientists from establishing these things? Why aren't they out there investigating and measuring and publishing papers?

 

[Right Divider]

In this model the sun hits and goes to a horizon we can see, then beyond it to a distance that we cannot see.

Continuing to repeat FALSEHOODS does not make them come true.

This picture is a FACT based on YOUR MODEL:
View attachment 26582
I didn't invent this. It describes what YOU SAID about the earth and the sun.

We are limited as to how far we can see into the distance, horizontally, across the earth because of perspective and the density of the earth's atmosphere in the troposphere.

Another REPEATED FALSEHOOD.

19,000 miles is no problem, even looking through the atmosphere at ground level.

We can see farther vertically into the sky where the earth does not come into play and we are not viewing things through miles of dense atmosphere. The graph I made is accurate an we will not see 9 degrees of the sun at and beyond the horizon of a flat earth.

--Dave

Dave, you're LYING. Please stop. You're just making a fool out of yourself.

 

[Right Divider]

Why hasn't this happened? What is preventing flat Earth scientists from establishing these things? Why aren't they out there investigating and measuring and publishing papers?

If you really want to know, I can tell you.... :french:

 

[DFT_Dave]

Continuing to repeat FALSEHOODS does not make them come true.

This picture is a FACT based on YOUR MODEL:
View attachment 26582
I didn't invent this. It describes what YOU SAID about the earth and the sun.

Another REPEATED FALSEHOOD.

19,000 miles is no problem, even looking through the atmosphere at ground level.

Dave, you're LYING. Please stop. You're just making a fool out of yourself.

Your model is not a fact of my model, mine has perspective yours does not.

Anyone one can clearly see the difference.

--Dave

 

[Right Divider]

Your model is not a fact of my model, mine has perspective yours does not.

You are just DUMB Dave. My picture PERFECTLY and ACCURATELY portrays what YOU HAVE TOLD US about the relationship of the EARTH AND THE SUN.

Our two pictures are NOT attempting to portray the SAME EXACT THING.

Anyone one can clearly see the difference.

--Dave

And anyone can tell that you are too dumb to KNOW WHAT THE DIFFERENCE IS.

At it's LOWEST POINT from the perspective OF THE OBSERVER, the sun is STILL 9 DEGREES ABOVE the horizon and this is based on YOUR MODEL.

 

[DFT_Dave]

No, it's not. If you get yourself a piece of welding glass and use it to look at the sun you will clearly see the solar disk. If you put two marks on that piece of glass that mark the diameter of the sun and then check it throughout the day, you will see that the sun is always the same diameter. You can do it with the moon as well and all you need is your thumb. Have you ever noticed that the moon looks really large at moon rise (which violates the heck out of you prospective rules!) yet smaller when higher in the sky? Hold your thumb out at arms length and compare your thumb to the size of the moon at moon rise. Later, when the moon is high, hold your thumb out again and compare your thumb to the moon. You will find that the moon is the same size. Go and try these things for yourself.

The radius of the Earth is 3,959 miles. The average distance between the Earth and the sun is 92,960,000 miles. At noon, the sun is approximately 3,959 miles closer to the sun. That is a difference of (3,959/92,960,000)*100% = 0.00425%. That is a difference well beyond the resolution of even the best of cameras. So your statement is true, but immeasurable.

Actually, everything I said changes the accuracy of your graph. You neglect the scale of the solar system. You failed to adequately explain why the sun goes above and below horizons when your model requires it to circle above the Earth. You failed to verify your graph against things that you can observe and measure with your own eyes and simple tools. Do you honestly believe your sketch explains why a sun rotating above a disk disappears from the bottom up at sunset and appears from the top down at sunrise?

Why hasn't this happened? What is preventing flat Earth scientists from establishing these things? Why aren't they out there investigating and measuring and publishing papers?

This graph accurately shows what we all see from our perspective with our limited viewing capacity.

The sun is obviously small enough and close enough in order to be consistent with this perspective reality.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

You are just DUMB Dave. My picture PERFECTLY and ACCURATELY portrays what YOU HAVE TOLD US about the relationship of the EARTH AND THE SUN.

Our two pictures are NOT attempting to portray the SAME EXACT THING.


And anyone can tell that you are too dumb to KNOW WHAT THE DIFFERENCE IS.

At it's LOWEST POINT from the perspective OF THE OBSERVER, the sun is STILL 9 DEGREES ABOVE the horizon and this is based on YOUR MODEL.

The graph incorporates it's own visual logical conclusion. There's no debating it.

View attachment 26583

--Dave

 

[Right Divider]

This graph accurately shows what we all see from our perspective with our limited viewing capacity.

The sun is obviously small enough and close enough in order to be consistent with this perspective reality.

--Dave

Lying and confused Dave.

The size of the sun DOES NOT CHANGE ALL DAY LONG.

This SINGLE FACT disproves your bogus idea about the supposed FE.

And yet, in your vast ignorance, you push on with the lie.

 

[Right Divider]

The graph incorporates it's own visual logical conclusion. There's no debating it.

View attachment 26583

--Dave

It is FACTUALLY INCORRECT.... the size of the sun does NOT CHANGE ALL DAY LONG. There is no debating it.

 

[CabinetMaker]

This graph accurately shows what we all see from our perspective with our limited viewing capacity.

The sun is obviously small enough and close enough in order to be consistent with this perspective reality.

--Dave

"Obviously" is the wrong choice of words. The sun is either very close and very small or it is very far away and very large. If it is very far away, from our point of view, perspective will make it appear small. You cannot rely only on your eyes to determine what is going on. You must do the science to confirm your observations.

Your hypothesis is that the sun is near and small. What experiment will you set up to confirm this?
Your hypothesis is that the sun traces a circle in a plane above and parallel to the surface of a flat Earth. What experiment will you do to confirm this?
Your hypothesis is that a sun that traces a circle in a plane above and parallel to the surface of a flat Earth will sink below a horizon. What experiment will you do to confirm this?

You have made many claims and created a few sketches but these are not scientific investigations. What experiments will you do to confirm that your sketches are accurate representations of what you actually see?

 

[Clete]

View attachment 26577

The horizon is where sky meets earth at our eye level.

You want to know why you get attacked personally?

It's because you're an ___! (fill in the blank)

We discussed this eye level BS to death and established without any doubt whatsoever that the horizon is NOT always at your eye level. Even on a flat disc earth you'd eventually be high enough to see it's curvature.

And here you are pretending like we never discussed it at all.

The path of the sun and our path on flat earth are parallel. No matter where we look along the horizon there's a distance we cannot see beyond.

Saying doesn't make it so, David. This too has been discussed to death. Nothing would ever be hidden behind a flat Earth.

The sun will simply merge into the horizon and the distance in elevation will not be detectable.

Refuted by every single human being's own personal experience nearly every single day of their entire lives.

The solid land mass will still give us a solid, or as you say hard, horizon line.

This amounts to an intentional lie.

No, it wouldn't do any such thing. Unless you live on a flat earth with no atmosphere.

View attachment 26578

Landscapes and cityscapes that rise above the horizon block our view of it before it reaches the horizon. Clouds at the horizon can also block our view of the sun before it reaches the horizon.

--Dave

Completely and utterly irrelevant.


Look, this stupidity is beneath me. I'm done discussing the horizon.

Clete

 

[Clete]

"Obviously" is the wrong choice of words. The sun is either very close and very small or it is very far away and very large. If it is very far away, from our point of view, perspective will make it appear small. You cannot rely only on your eyes to determine what is going on. You must do the science to confirm your observations.

Your hypothesis is that the sun is near and small. What experiment will you set up to confirm this?
Your hypothesis is that the sun traces a circle in a plane above and parallel to the surface of a flat Earth. What experiment will you do to confirm this?
Your hypothesis is that a sun that traces a circle in a plane above and parallel to the surface of a flat Earth will sink below a horizon. What experiment will you do to confirm this?

You have made many claims and created a few sketches but these are not scientific investigations. What experiments will you do to confirm that your sketches are accurate representations of what you actually see?

That's an excellent post.