ECT The Church (Ekklesia) at Acts 2

[Jerry Shugart]

I will begin the study by quoting this verse which speaks of the "church" at Acts 2:

"Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church (ekklesia) daily such as should be saved" (Acts 2:47).​

The Greek word translated "church" is ekklesia and that word can be found in the Greek version of the Old Testament (the LXX). Alfred Edersheim, a Jewish convert to Christianity and a respected Bible scholar, wrote the following:

"Nor would the term 'Church' sound strange in Jewish ears. The same Greek word (ekklesia), as the equivalent of the Hebrew 'Qahal,' 'convocation,' 'the called,' occurs in the LXX. rendering of the Old Testament, and in 'the Wisdom of the Son of Sirach' and was apparently in familiar use at that time. In Hebrew use it referred to Israel, not in their national but in their religious unity" [emphasis added] (Edersheim, The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah [Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. M. Eerdmans Publishing 1971] Book 3, Chapter 37, p.84).​

According to Edersheim the Greek word translated "church" was in familiar use and "it referred to Israel...in their religious unity." Next, let us look at the events here which were in regard to the ekklesia of Acts 2:

"For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams" (Acts 2:16-17).​

The following prophecy was totally in regard to the religious unity of Israel and Israel alone:

"Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly: Gather the people, sanctify the congregation (ekklesia), assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts...And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed. And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions" (Joel 2:16,27-28).​

So the ekklesia mentioned at Acts 2:47 is referring to Israel in her religious unity and it is not referring to the Body of Christ.

 

[DAN P]

I will begin the study by quoting this verse which speaks of the "church" at Acts 2:

"Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church (ekklesia) daily such as should be saved" (Acts 2:47).​

The Greek word translated "church" is ekklesia and that word can be found in the Greek version of the Old Testament (the LXX). Alfred Edersheim, a Jewish convert to Christianity and a respected Bible scholar, wrote the following:

"Nor would the term 'Church' sound strange in Jewish ears. The same Greek word (ekklesia), as the equivalent of the Hebrew 'Qahal,' 'convocation,' 'the called,' occurs in the LXX. rendering of the Old Testament, and in 'the Wisdom of the Son of Sirach' and was apparently in familiar use at that time. In Hebrew use it referred to Israel, not in their national but in their religious unity" [emphasis added] (Edersheim, The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah [Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. M. Eerdmans Publishing 1971] Book 3, Chapter 37, p.84).​

According to Edersheim the Greek word translated "church" was in familiar use and "it referred to Israel...in their religious unity." Next, let us look at the events here which were in regard to the ekklesia of Acts 2:

"For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams" (Acts 2:16-17).​

The following prophecy was totally in regard to the religious unity of Israel and Israel alone:

"Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly: Gather the people, sanctify the congregation (ekklesia), assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts...And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed. And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions" (Joel 2:16,27-28).​

So the ekklesia mentioned at Acts 2:47 is referring to Israel in her religious unity and it is not referring to the Body of Christ.

Hi and one verb is in the Greek IMPERFECT TENSE which means Jesus ADDED to that ASSEMBLY and then STOPPED and I believe that happened in Acts 28:28 and as 2 Cor 14-16 , as Israel was being set aside !!

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

So the ekklesia mentioned at Acts 2:47 is referring to Israel in her religious unity and it is not referring to the Body of Christ.

What I see with your approach to understanding something is you take a select few verses and draw a conclusion based on this limited approach. Ekklesia doesn't stop appearing in Acts 2.

Paul tells us that the ekklesia is the body.
Col. 1:18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
The term "body" is an analogy to help us understand.

I agree with your conclusion that the church is Israel in her religious unity so lets put that to the test.
Paul says that those in the church "are the circumcision".
Phil. 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation! 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,

Paul says we have been circumcised.
Col. 2:11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

Paul says we are descendants of Abraham and heirs according to the promise.
Gal. 3:29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Are not all these things that Paul is using to describe the church, things that make someone a Jew distinct from a Gentile?

 

[Interplanner]

I will begin the study by quoting this verse which speaks of the "church" at Acts 2:

"Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church (ekklesia) daily such as should be saved" (Acts 2:47).​

The Greek word translated "church" is ekklesia and that word can be found in the Greek version of the Old Testament (the LXX). Alfred Edersheim, a Jewish convert to Christianity and a respected Bible scholar, wrote the following:

"Nor would the term 'Church' sound strange in Jewish ears. The same Greek word (ekklesia), as the equivalent of the Hebrew 'Qahal,' 'convocation,' 'the called,' occurs in the LXX. rendering of the Old Testament, and in 'the Wisdom of the Son of Sirach' and was apparently in familiar use at that time. In Hebrew use it referred to Israel, not in their national but in their religious unity" [emphasis added] (Edersheim, The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah [Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. M. Eerdmans Publishing 1971] Book 3, Chapter 37, p.84).​

According to Edersheim the Greek word translated "church" was in familiar use and "it referred to Israel...in their religious unity." Next, let us look at the events here which were in regard to the ekklesia of Acts 2:

"For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams" (Acts 2:16-17).​

The following prophecy was totally in regard to the religious unity of Israel and Israel alone:

"Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly: Gather the people, sanctify the congregation (ekklesia), assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts...And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed. And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions" (Joel 2:16,27-28).​

So the ekklesia mentioned at Acts 2:47 is referring to Israel in her religious unity and it is not referring to the Body of Christ.

They were told they would be starting at Jerusalem, then Judea, Samaria and the uttermost. Did you notice they were still in Jerusalem?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Are not all these things that Paul is using to describe the church, things that make someone a Jew distinct from a Gentile?

Your argument falls apart because in the Body there is no distinction between the Jew and the Gentiles.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

They were told they would be starting at Jerusalem, then Judea, Samaria and the uttermost. Did you notice they were still in Jerusalem?

Do you know why?

 

[Interplanner]

Do you know why?

The missionaries who had been trained and the ones conscripted that day would spread to the whole known world. I already said: to Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and the ends of the earth, with the same message of forgiveness of sins, even crucifiying Christ, which you have schooled yourself NOT to see (called denial). I always hit 'denial' on the head.

 

[turbosixx]

Your argument falls apart because in the Body there is no distinction between the Jew and the Gentiles.

Good point but Paul is the one saying those things, not me. I agree there is no distinction in Christ. The point I'm trying to make is that in the OT the Jews were God's people and now after Jesus the church is God's people. That's why Paul says we are the circumcision.

Why were these people added if they were already Israelites?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The missionaries who had been trained and the ones conscripted that day would spread to the whole known world. I already said: to Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and the ends of the earth, with the same message of forgiveness of sins, even crucifiying Christ, which you have schooled yourself NOT to see (called denial). I always hit 'denial' on the head.

When the disciples were scattered upon the persecution of Stephen why did they go only to the Jews and not the Gentiles?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Why were these people added if they were already Israelites?

You evidently missed the point of my OP. The ekklesia at Acts 2 was Israel in her religious unity. So of course those who were added were the children of Israel. Later, upon the persecution of Peter they went everywhere preaching only to the Jews.

 

[Danoh]

They were told they would be starting at Jerusalem, then Judea, Samaria and the uttermost. Did you notice they were still in Jerusalem?

What - you don't know that Judaea and Samaria was where some of His "other sheep" (tribes of Israel) were?

Nor that a vast number of members of said Twelve Tribes ("children of God") were "scattered abroad" - "unto the uttermost parts" of that then "world" - that then astoundingly vast Roman Empire, that Israel was then under?

Daniel 9:7 O LORD, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

John 11:49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, 11:50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not. 11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; 11:52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad. 11:53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

Whose God? At that time - THEIRS - the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and their multiplied seed.

Acts 3:17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

You are confused.

The following is further proof that you are confused...

Spoiler

"The mission" as you often rightly call THEIR mission, but then confuse the heck out of with the Apostle Paul's "mission" - was to their OWN...FIRST.

But they were also told they would not complete even that much within the cities of Israel BEFORE His return, Matt. 10:23.

The Twelve Tribes of Israel FIRST.

Which was to have gone on into THEIR Great Tribulation, rise of AntiChrist, and all the rest of that.

Followed by His return; gathering THEIR rest of said Twelve Tribes from the four corners of that then world.

And THEN THROUGH THEM - the Gentiles, Matt. 24.

But God had planned on temporarily stopping that; that He might reconcile BACK unto Himself - NOT the EARTH FIRST - BUT that EVEN NOW "spiritual wickedness in high (Heavenly) places" - the very destiny of His New Creature: The Body of Christ, Eph. 1; Col. 1.

Your huge, huge error decades ago was that you went in search of your answers in commentaries written by a school of thought that having failed to see this in Scripture; allegorized the heck out of much of it, in its' own conceit, Rom. 11.

The illogic of your views continuing from there to where you are now so ensnared by it after all these decades; that there is no longer much hope of you seeing these things as they are.

First this...

Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Then this...

24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

But again - first this...

24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 24:25 Behold, I have told you before. 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

But first this...

Matthew 10:18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. 10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Then this...

24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Which per this, was delayed...

2 Peter 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Even as our beloved brother Paul had written unto them?

That is not in Hebrews.

Where it is found is in...

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer?

When?

Unto whom?

Isaiah 59:1 Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. 59:3 For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness. 59:4 None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity. 59:5 They hatch cockatrice' eggs, and weave the spider's web: he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper. 59:6 Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works: their works are works of iniquity, and the act of violence is in their hands. 59:7 Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; wasting and destruction are in their paths. 59:8 The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace. 59:9 Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness. 59:10 We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noon day as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men. 59:11 We roar all like bears, and mourn sore like doves: we look for judgment, but there is none; for salvation, but it is far off from us. 59:12 For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions are with us; and as for our iniquities, we know them; 59:13 In transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood. 59:14 And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter. 59:15 Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. 59:16 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. 59:17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak. 59:18 According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence. 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him. 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD. 59:21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

Read it...believe it...as it is written.

Why?

2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; 4:14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I'm waiting to see if intojoy will even attempt to defend the idea that the Body of Christ began at Acts 2.

 

[Interplanner]

When the disciples were scattered upon the persecution of Stephen why did they go only to the Jews and not the Gentiles?

People make mistakes all the time. Peter made his mistakes. Philip was sent to an African. They may have thought what they heard from Paul was a trick. Peter referred back (in ch 15) to his outreach at the time you are referring to and said he went to the Gentiles.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

People make mistakes all the time.

All of them made a mistake? Every single one of them just forgot that the Lord Jesus told them to go into the world and preach the gospel to every creature?

They may have thought what they heard from Paul was a trick.

At the time when the disciples were scattered Paul had not yet been converted.

Who can take you seriously?

 

[Interplanner]

All of them made a mistake? Every single one of them just forgot that the Lord Jesus told them to go into the world and preach the gospel to every creature?

Who can take you seriously?

If you are shy and afraid, you can really have trouble going outside the familiar. They were also infected with people teaching them they could not eat other food. You don't grow up in Judaism where they 'bury' apostates and switch overnight.

Peter's recollection was that he went to the gentiles. Philip went to an African by divine relocation.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

If you are shy and afraid, you can really have trouble going outside the familiar.

None of them went to the Gentiles to preach to them because they were all shy and afraid?

They may have thought what they heard from Paul was a trick.

A the time when the disciples were scattered Paul had not yet been converted.

 

[Interplanner]

None of them went to the Gentiles to preach to them because they were all shy and afraid?



A the time when the disciples were scattered Paul had not yet been converted.

When you will be 'buried' by your family, it can be hard to go through with something. I'm sure I would. Are you the paragon of taking risks and losing all family connections? Tell us about it.

Then there was the sabbath police--the zealots. Think Taliban. If you do something different from Judaism, you could be injured by them.

You are very doctrinaire, Jerry. The people in the accounts of Jesus and Acts are just theologic-bots to you. You have no idea what it meant to grow up surrounded by zealots in Galilee. So when Peter is scared off by a Christ who will get crucified, it is a deep pain, going back years.

 

[Interplanner]

What amount of time do you think there is from Acts 9:1 to 31 to 10:1? Did you know Galilee was called Galilee of the Gentiles? (Mt 4, quoting Is 9), so they were on track (Jerusalem--Judea--Galilee--ends of earth). So you strain at points that make us not take you seriously.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

What amount of time do you think there is from Acts 9:1 to 31 to 10:1? Did you know Galilee was called Galilee of the Gentiles? (Mt 4, quoting Is 9), so they were on track (Jerusalem--Judea--Galilee--ends of earth). So you strain at points that make us not take you seriously.

What is your point?

 

[glorydaz]

When you will be 'buried' by your family, it can be hard to go through with something. I'm sure I would. Are you the paragon of taking risks and losing all family connections? Tell us about it.

Then there was the sabbath police--the zealots. Think Taliban. If you do something different from Judaism, you could be injured by them.

You are very doctrinaire, Jerry. The people in the accounts of Jesus and Acts are just theologic-bots to you. You have no idea what it meant to grow up surrounded by zealots in Galilee. So when Peter is scared off by a Christ who will get crucified, it is a deep pain, going back years.

Wow....do you always turn the Bible into a movie. It's so real. Who are the actors?