Please show us a man unable to prepare for the possibility that he might need surgery. :thumb:
The Case Against Universal Healthcare
- Thread starter lovemeorhateme
- Start date
Please show us a man unable to prepare for the possibility that he might need surgery. :thumb:
Caledvwlch
New member
What sort of circumstance do you have in mind?
None.
Caledvwlch
New member
I just don't understand what you want me to produce. An actual person who can't afford shoulder surgery?
That isn't true. Emergency rooms are required to stabilize anyone who shows up regardless of their ability to pay. But they still ask for payment up front.
Tyrathca
New member
So if a person walks into an emergency department with a tumor the size of a grapefruit but currently walking and breathing well does the hospital remove the tumor, regardless of ability to pay, even if it won't likely kill or debilitate them for a few months?
(Serious question, I'm Aussie and don't always grasp how this aspect of your system works. Here it would be treated if warranted, no question of the individuals funds)
They aren't require to remove it unless necessary to stabilize you. They may give you something for the pain.
lovemeorhateme
Well-known member
:noway:
So they could legally refuse to remove that tumour and leave them to suffer with it, as long as it won't kill them? That is an utterly abhorrent thought!
lovemeorhateme
Well-known member
What happens if someone can't pay?
Usually, they will be stabilized and sent on their way. Anything beyond that is generally at the hospital's discretion.
It's worse than that. Even if it will kill them, if they aren't immediately in danger, they have no obligation to help.
And ERs do routinely ask for payment ahead of services if the patient is not in immediately in danger, even if they have good reason to seek emergency services.
lovemeorhateme
Well-known member
I chose to use the wording which was part of the founding principles of the British NHS. That healthcare should be free to all at point of need with no regard for ability to pay and that it would be funded through taxation.
In 1948, a copy of this leaflet was posted to every home in Britain:
Spoiler
It pretty much sums up what I believe healthcare should be about.
Could you elaborate more on your views? I'm genuinely curious to know what you think.
lovemeorhateme
Well-known member
Could the hospital then bill them for it afterwards and attempt to pursue them through the courts if they don't pay up?
lovemeorhateme
Well-known member
Seriously? What do you think about that?
What I don't understand is why certain Christians around here would support such an abhorrent, cruel system.
They can. And just because they ask for payment up front doesn't mean that they won't also ask for payments after the fact. A lot of hospitals now are turning various workers in the system into contractors, which each bill separately. So you could go to a hospital, be asked to fork over thousands of dollars up front, and then get thousands of dollars in bills in the next few months.
Most hospitals, knowing that a lot of people can't pay, also make a calculation about which bills are worth trying to collect and which aren't. So sometimes, you can plead poverty and they'll relent. But for the most part, you are at their mercy, and there's no way even to know what to expect going in.
I think that the US is a largely failed experiment, and if you promised to bring in the NHS, I'd happily undo the Declaration of Independence for forsake my republican ideals. And maybe you could somehow avoid me ever having to say the words "King Charles"....long live the queen?
Ok, I'm exaggerating. Slightly.
There are a lot of Christians in this country who are kind, wonderful people. And they are mostly drowned out in terms of public rhetoric by people like Ted Cruz, who follow branches of Christianity that derive from the old slave-holding traditions, and haven't really improved much since then. It's actually a pretty distorted picture of American Christianity, but it's also a very real thing.
Describe a situation where a man cannot prepare for the possibility that he might need surgery.
Tyrathca
New member
This is a prime example of why privatization doesn't work on most of healthcare. How can free markets work when there is such a huge imbalance between purchasers and sellers, the answer is it can't which is something many of the extreme right wing nuts can't accept.
Sadly so many of your countrymen want to double down and increase privatization. It's like getting stuck in a hole of your own making and then saying "keep digging!"
lovemeorhateme
Well-known member
Can you understand how we look across the Atlantic with bemusement and feel mystified when we hear things like this? It's difficult to even get my head around how a healthcare system would allow this to happen, especially when that system is in the richest country in the world.
:chuckle:
From that I take it that you would welcome an NHS style system with open arms.
:thumb:
I'm sure that not every Christian shares exactly the same views. I have a number of American Christian friends, and they are all lovely people. There's a few on this site who seem to be more hate filled than loving, however. It's not necessarily what's said, but how it's said...
IF that meant decent healthcare for everyone, I would welcome them as well.
For me, it just seems like it should walk hand in hand with the prolife/anti-abortion position.
If we make up a scenario that happens in the UK, will you be convinced that your system is bad as well?