THE APOSTLES DID NOT PREACH THE SAME GOSPEL

DougE

Well-known member
I agree with your definition. I would also suggest more of Romans tells us the same.

9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,
The physical descendants are not true Israel.

9:7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
This is how ALL Israel will be saved. It's not the physical children but the children of promise that are truly Israel.

11:4 But what is God's reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.
In the past God has weeded out those who are not truly His and that is what He has done now. Jesus spoke/speaks for God. Those who believed His son are truly His people.




Paul tells us we have been circumcised:
Col. 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
Also we are descendants of Abraham:
Gal. 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

If that doesn't mean we are spiritual Israel, then why not?

Hey
We are not spiritual Israel because that implies God will not fulfill all that he said he would toward the believing remnant of Israel especially the Davidic kingdom.

We are only partakers of their spiritual blessings (Romans 15:27).
 

DougE

Well-known member
Jhn 5:23KJV, Jhn 17:23KJV, Jhn 17:21KJV, Jhn 17:3KJV, Jhn 4:23KJV,

Hello
I don't see these verses speaking of the body of Christ as found in Paul's epistles. The verses you cited speak to the believers as being one but it does not say one body, where there is neither Jew or Greek, nor of one new man.
 

DougE

Well-known member
Based on your comment how do you see this?

1 Cor. 1:12 What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.”

The Corinthians were converted by different men. When Paul writes to them, is he only addressing those he converted as the BOC? In what classification do you place those who were converted by the other men?

Hello
Paul also has to be rightly divided .....Paul was speaking to and about different groups...those in Christ before him (Romans 16:7 as an example).
 

turbosixx

New member
especially the Davidic kingdom.
What do you really understand about the "Davidic" kingdom? Could you please point to a passage or two.

We are only partakers of their spiritual blessings (Romans 15:27).
What does this mean to you?

Talking to Gentiles Paul says:
Eph. 2:15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man[/U in place of the two , so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.
2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,
 

turbosixx

New member
Hello
Paul also has to be rightly divided .....Paul was speaking to and about different groups...those in Christ before him (Romans 16:7 as an example).

So when the Corinthians read his letter they had to figure which parts applied to them?

So if a Jew today reads only Paul's letters and believes, does that add him to the church that is the BoC? And if another Jew today reads only the letters written to the Jews and believes, does that add him to a different church?

You do realize that the word "rightly dividing" is translated from has nothing to do with dividing? The word is talking about correctly handling.
orthotomeó: to cut straight
Original Word: ὀρθοτομέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: orthotomeó
Phonetic Spelling: (or-thot-om-eh'-o)
Definition: to cut straight
Usage: I cut straight; met: I handle correctly, teach rightly.



This is the Greek word for dividing and is not used in 2 Timothy.
merizó: to divide
Original Word: μερίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: merizó
Phonetic Spelling: (mer-id'-zo)
Definition: to divide
Usage: I divide into parts, divide, part, share, distribute; mid: I share, take part in a partitioning; I distract.
 

DougE

Well-known member
What do you really understand about the "Davidic" kingdom? Could you please point to a passage or two.


What does this mean to you?

Talking to Gentiles Paul says:
Eph. 2:15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man[/U in place of the two , so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.
2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,


Hello
The Davidic kingdom is the kingdom on earth where Christ reigns from David's throne in Jerusalem and the believing remnant of Israel reigns as priests and kings with Christ for a thousand years.

The body of Christ are partakers of the spiritual blessings of Israel in heavenly places, not the earthly kingdom.
 

DougE

Well-known member
So when the Corinthians read his letter they had to figure which parts applied to them?

So if a Jew today reads only Paul's letters and believes, does that add him to the church that is the BoC? And if another Jew today reads only the letters written to the Jews and believes, does that add him to a different church?

You do realize that the word "rightly dividing" is translated from has nothing to do with dividing? The word is talking about correctly handling.
orthotomeó: to cut straight
Original Word: ὀρθοτομέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: orthotomeó
Phonetic Spelling: (or-thot-om-eh'-o)
Definition: to cut straight
Usage: I cut straight; met: I handle correctly, teach rightly.



This is the Greek word for dividing and is not used in 2 Timothy.
merizó: to divide
Original Word: μερίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: merizó
Phonetic Spelling: (mer-id'-zo)
Definition: to divide
Usage: I divide into parts, divide, part, share, distribute; mid: I share, take part in a partitioning; I distract.

Hello
A Jew could not read a different gospel ...Paul did not preach two gospels

I mean that Romans 9 thru 11 as an example is speaking of Israel
 

turbosixx

New member
Hello
The Davidic kingdom is the kingdom on earth where Christ reigns from David's throne in Jerusalem

I was curious what passages you read about the "Davidic" kingdom.

When I read the passages about the "Davidic" kingdom it lasts forever not 1,000 years.
Lk. 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.”

Is Christ not your king now?
 

turbosixx

New member
Hello
A Jew could not read a different gospel ...Paul did not preach two gospels

How can a Jew not read a different gospel? Don't you believe there are two?


The gospel of Christ begain with John the Baptist.
Mk. 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
Jesus told the 12:
Mk. 16:15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.

Is this the same as the gospel that Paul preached?
 

DougE

Well-known member
I was curious what passages you read about the "Davidic" kingdom.

When I read the passages about the "Davidic" kingdom it lasts forever not 1,000 years.
Lk. 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.”



Is Christ not your king now?

Hello

Thousand year reign on earth Revelation 20:4-7 then new heavens and earth Revelation 21:1-2 2 Peter 3:13
 

DougE

Well-known member
How can a Jew not read a different gospel? Don't you believe there are two?


The gospel of Christ begain with John the Baptist.
Mk. 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
Jesus told the 12:
Mk. 16:15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.

Is this the same as the gospel that Paul preached?

Hello
Mark 1:1 is the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Israel had to believe the gospel of the kingdom (Mark 16:15)and that Jesus was the Son of God, the Messiah.
 
Last edited:

turbosixx

New member
Hello

Thousand year reign on earth Revelation 20:4-7 then new heavens and earth Revelation 21:1-2 2 Peter 3:13

So where do you place the 1,000 year reign before or after the earth is burned up?

2 Pt. 3:5 For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, 6 and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. 7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed. 11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,[/I]
 

turbosixx

New member
Hello
Mark 1:1 is the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Israel had to believe the gospel of the kingdom (Mark 16:15)and that Jesus was the Son of God, the Messiah.

I'm not sure I follow you here. Are you saying these are different gospels? If so, based on what?
Thanks
 

steko

Well-known member
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
 

steko

Well-known member
I'm not sure I follow you here. Are you saying these are different gospels? If so, based on what?
Thanks

euaggelion existed in the Greek language long before the NT was written and meant good news about anything that was good news. Context explains what the particular good news is being referred to in the NT.

Did the twelve proclaim the gospel of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ at any point before the crucifixion of Christ took place?

Mar 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mar 11:10 Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest.

Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob[Israel] for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.


The gospel of the kingdom preached by the Lord Jesus and the twelve is obviously not the same as the gospel which Paul preached later:

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
 

bibleverse2

New member
It is only known that the church is the body of Christ by Paul's epistles; this can not be found before Paul

Note that the principle was taught by Jesus in John 15:5. And nothing in the Bible supports any dichotomy between the Church and the body, for they are one and the same (Colossians 1:18).

Romans 2:6-8 states how God will judge but, there is none righteous that can meet this.

None apart from Biblical Christians who obey God (Philippians 2:12-13, John 15:4-5).

--

Paul also has to be rightly divided . . .

Are you thinking of 2 Timothy 2:15b?

If so, it refers to how the Bible was originally written down in manuscripts which had no spaces between the words, no punctuation, and no distinguishing capitalization or non-capitalization. That is, it was just an unbroken stream of upper or lower-case letters. So, for example, Genesis 1:6-7 would have looked like this:

andgodsaidlettherebeafirmamentinthemidstofthewaters
andletitdividethewatersfromthewatersandgodmadethefir
mamentanddividedthewaterswhichwereunderthefirmam
entfromthewaterswhichwereabovethefirmamentanditw

This meant that those who studied the Bible (2 Timothy 2:15a) had to rightly divide between the words to arrive at the correct meaning. So, in the example above, if one mistakenly divided: "watersandletitdividethewaters" into the words: "water: sand, let it divide the waters", one would come away with the mistaken idea that Genesis 1:6-7 refers to God creating sand bars, instead of Him creating the atmosphere (the firmament, the first heaven, in which the birds fly: Genesis 1:20b) to hold water up in the air (such as in rain clouds), above and separate from the water in the ocean.
 

bibleverse2

New member
I mean that Romans 9 thru 11 as an example is speaking of Israel

Note that it includes some Gentiles as being in elect, spiritual Israel (Romans 9:24).

(See also post #46 above)

--

1 Thessalonians 1:3 does not say we lose salvation.

It refers to works of faith, rather than works of the Old Covenant Mosaic law. The former are required for ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8).

We are saved unto good works. not by them (Ephesians 2:10)

Initially, but not ultimately (Matthew 7:21). Also, Ephesians 2:10 does not mean that Christians will automatically perform good works. For while God makes it possible for Christians to do the right thing (Philippians 2:13, John 15:4-5), He does not take away their free will, turning them into robots, or into macabre flesh puppets, mere marionettes whom He forces to dance across the stage as He pulls on their strings. Instead, He leaves them as His real children with free will. And so they have to choose each and every day to deny themselves, to take up their crosses, and to follow Jesus Christ to the end (Luke 9:23, Matthew 24:13). And there is no assurance that they will choose to do that (Matthew 25:26,30, Luke 12:45-46, Luke 8:13), because of free will.

Initial salvation, being born again (John 3:3,7; 1 Peter 1:23-25; 1 Peter 2:2), is both present salvation and a contract for ultimate salvation, just as the birth of an infant is both present life and a contract for life as an adult. Just as children can know that they are actually alive, so initially saved people (that is, Christians) can know that they are actually saved (1 John 5:13; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). And just as an infant cannot "give back" his being born, or become unborn, so a born-again person cannot become un-born-again, or "give back" his being born again, his being initially saved. But just as there is no assurance that children will reach adulthood, so there is no assurance that initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation. For just as there are conditions placed on children, like not running into traffic, and not drinking the Drano under the sink, if they are to reach adulthood, so there are conditions placed on the born-again, the initially saved, if they are to obtain ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, Hebrews 3:6,14; 1 Corinthians 9:27).

We labour to please God and for reward (1 Corinthians 3:8).

And also to be ultimately accepted by Him (2 Corinthians 5:9), and not rejected by Him to the ultimate loss of our salvation (Matthew 25:26,30).

James 2:24 Abraham was justified by his works in that he was called the friend of God. His works did not justify him unto eternal life . . .

Abraham was ultimately justified unto eternal life by both his faith and his works:

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

(See also post #65 above)

Matthew 7:21 is not talking about the body but Israel.

They are the same, for Ephesians 2:12,19 means that Christian Gentiles are not strangers to Israel, but are fellowcitizens in Israel along with Jewish Christians. Read also what Ephesians 3:6 says.

Also, Matthew 7:21 is talking about the same people as Romans 2:6-8.
 
Top