Thanks Bob

[Granite]

So after much bloviation has anyone come up with a good reason to expand federal power and suck the toes of the feds, or did that little detail get lost in the shuffle?

 

[PKevman]

YES!!!!

Because in politics we aren't talking about good people.

We are talking about one parent beating up their kid going over and telling another parent to stop beating their kid.

It's hypocritical.

What if they stop refusing to beat their kid with a baseball bat? You already agreed wholeheartedly that it was right to use force to stop them. :think:

 

[PKevman]

So after much bloviation has anyone come up with a good reason to expand federal power and suck the toes of the feds, or did that little detail get lost in the shuffle?

No, we just have mostly bypassed your ever-present efforts to derail the conversation. :ha:

 

[PKevman]

You do have a means addressing abortion on a wider scale, yet you do not exercise it. Yet when others adopt the same principle, you condemn them.

Ok in World War I (a subject that I know you're greatly superior to me on) if a plane has TWO TARGETS to choose from, and one is 100' away, and one is 500' away and his guns are very hot, and both are EQUAL AND VIABLE targets, which shot is the wiser shot? :think:

 

[PKevman]

Aha! You are hereby awarded one Technical Victory Point and heartily congratulated.

As a husband and father, I am the protector of my children and wife. My children, because they belong to their parents and my wife, because she delegates to me her right to protect herself. When I exercise this right to protect those who belong to me and have designated me as their protector, this cannot be accurately termed "self" defense. So you are absolutely correct.

And, of course, it makes absolutely no difference since Iraq does not belong to the United States and Iraq never delegated their self defense rights to you or me. And the 4 million Iraqis we have made homeless and the 1.2 million we've killed hardly consider us as their "protectors."

So back where we started. Killing innocent American babies is rejected as foul, evil murder, while killing innocent Iraqi adults is accepted as "collateral damage" on a holy crusade to bring them a democracy that they never asked for.

You ignored the rest of my question. Why is that? I'll restate it better for you:

Scenario 1:
I am your friend, correct? I've known you for years correct? If some man came into my house, tied me up and was brutally murdering my family, and you came along, would you use force to defend my family? Heck even if I wasn't tied up, and some men were attacking my family, would you use force to defend us? I know you know karate and can kick some hine-end if the situation called for it. So I ask you, would this be a situation where force would be justifiable?

My SECOND SCENARIO which you utterly ignored:

If your neighbor is brutally beating his 2 year-old son with a baseball bat, do you have the justification to use force to stop him from doing so? Even though he has NOT attacked you in any way shape or form, has no PLANS to attack you in any way shape or form, and just wants to be left alone to beat his kid to death?

 

[PKevman]

I hope you won't blow Post #925 off Stephen. Or Post #924 for that matter.

 

[CRASH]

I could swear you were giving me a lecture on history not too long ago, but we'll bypass that for a moment. I am not a citizen of the United Nations of the world. That is utterly ridiculous. As much as the UN might aspire to be a one-world government it in fact is not. So to liken my rights as a citizen of the USA in the state of New York as opposed to the state I live in (Indiana) to my rights if I were to go to China as opposed to my rights as a citizen of the USA is ludicrous.

That argument was destroyed utterly and completely, but to make things clear, let's be sure we understand one another:

Dr.B: Are you saying that you and I as citizens of the USA have just as much voice in China as we do in America? Do we have the same voting rights, same freedom, etc... if we go to China as we do here in America?

China and America are two different countries my friend. New York and Indiana are NOT! As such, if I move to New York, I am still a citizen of the USA. I don't have to reapply for citizenship of this country all over again.

This seems to me so simple that only someone who was willingly and deliberately CLINGING to a faulty worldview would continue to deny it!

Hopefully you'll consider this before persisting with this argument.

Amen. Score one for PK!:thumb:

 

[Granite]

No, we just have mostly bypassed your ever-present efforts to derail the conversation. :ha:

It has everything to do with the conversation. You're too dense or numb to realize it or acknowledge it, however.

The pro-life movement has gotten downright twisted...it is nowhere near what it used to be ten or fifteen years ago. This is a pathetic state of affairs.

 

[Lighthouse]

With Stephen quoting a socialist in his signature, is it any wonder he's so bent on allowing states to have abortion?

 

[S†ephen]

What if they stop refusing to beat their kid with a baseball bat? You already agreed wholeheartedly that it was right to use force to stop them. :think:

Yes, it would be right for me to stop them. IF I WASN'T BEATING MY KID.

But if I am beating my kid with a baseball bat (USA) then it would be totally wrong and hypocritical for me to tell someone else to stop beating their kid with a baseball bat. (Iraq)

This argument has been ripped to shreds.

 

[drbrumley]

If your next door neighbor is beating his 2 year old to death with a baseball bat is it right for you to apply force to stop him? Or would you be interefering with his rights? Would you be willing to give your life or fight him to the death to stop him from killing his 2 year old child? Remember that he has NO WILL OR DESIRE TO ATTACK YOU!

Interested in your answer, and hope you will remove political considerations from the equation when you answer. It's not a trap question, it's a worldview question.

Yes we should stop him. The problem with your example is Iraq wasn't a neighbor!

 

[PKevman]

Yes, it would be right for me to stop them. IF I WASN'T BEATING MY KID.

But if I am beating my kid with a baseball bat (USA) then it would be totally wrong and hypocritical for me to tell someone else to stop beating their kid with a baseball bat. (Iraq)

This argument has been ripped to shreds.

The argument has been mostly ignored, and you already answered correctly the first time, so you have only refuted your own argument. Sorry but never has our country done here to our own people what Saddam was doing to his people. You will never, ever, ever make that case! (Unless you go back to pre-Civil War and the slavery days, or how the American Indians were treated, but certainly NOT in modern times).

Still, I did answer this argument many posts ago when I asked you if a man who is a convicted murderer is out cutting his grass and sees his neighbor beating his kid to death with a baseball bat, if that man would be justified in using force to stop his neighbor from killing his kid. You never responded to this.

 

[PKevman]

If a murderer saves the life of a child who is being murdered is it a good thing? Or should he say, "I'm a murderer anyway, so what's the use," and watch the child be murdered?

Argument destroyed. Volley.

 

[drbrumley]

The argument has been mostly ignored, and you already answered correctly the first time, so you have only refuted your own argument. Sorry but never has our country done here to our own people what Saddam was doing to his people. You will never, ever, ever make that case! (Unless you go back to pre-Civil War and the slavery days, or how the American Indians were treated, but certainly NOT in modern times).

You certain of that?

 

[PKevman]

You certain of that?

Well the other argument you could make would be abortion. That would be a valid argument as well. But it still is a good thing for a wicked government to do a good thing. Would you agree with this statement?

What is worse in your opinion: Our government or the government of China?

 

[drbrumley]

S†ephen ,

It is not a sin to be a hypocrite. Babylon invaded Isreal for the bad things Isreal was doing, yet Babylon was doing the same exact thing. Read Jeremiah, Daniel etc.....

 

[PKevman]

I for one believe that Saddam had enough hatred for America (he was quite open about it by the way), that you never know what he would have done. He also had years and years to hide away, sell, or give to his allies the weapons we knew he had because we GAVE them to him! He thumbed his nose for YEARS at the inspections. But I refuse to debate this worthless subject anymore.

It has no relevance to the issue of innocent babies being murdered daily in our country!

 

[drbrumley]

What is worse in your opinion: Our government or the government of China?

Honestly, they are equally bad.

 

[PKevman]

S†ephen ,

It is not a sin to be a hypocrite. Babylon invaded Isreal for the bad things Isreal was doing, yet Babylon was doing the same exact thing. Read Jeremiah, Daniel etc.....

:doh:

When a wicked man does something right, it should be celebrated that he finally did something right. Even if he goes out tomorrow and does something wrong.

If a killer saves the life of a child, I'm sure the child and the parents would be grateful that he didn't decide he would be a hypocrite to save the life of the child.

 

[PKevman]

I hope you won't blow Post #925 off Stephen. Or Post #924 for that matter.

Bump