ECT Tet and IP: so what's the bottom line, really?

tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
SaulToPaul said:
Why hasn't it been subdued?
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What makes you think it isn't?

(Rom 13:1) Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

What does God do with these authorities?

(Rom 13:4) For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

Verse 4 tells us that God uses rulers as His servants and agents of wrath. That sounds like the definition of "subdue" to me.

Maybe you or mysteryboy can explain how "God's wrath" exists during what you guys call "the age of grace"?
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Right Divider said:
You continue to show you stupidity at every opportunity.

God has 2 plans and ONE people: believers.

God chose Israel for His plans on earth, this does NOT exclude believing gentiles. They simply have different roles in the kingdom.
God chose believers regardless of race, sex, etc. for His plans for the heavenly realm and He calls this the body of Christ.
One day God joins them both in Christ (Eph 1:10, you probably don't like that because it says "dispensation").

Your ignorance of these things is your own problem.
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There's no ignorance of these things. I understand what you believe (which is a lot different than what STP believes). It's basic Dispensationalism.

However, you're both wrong.

Again, this 2P2P nonsense didn't exist until Darby invented it in 1830.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
tetelestai said:
There's no ignorance of these things. I understand what you believe (which is a lot different than what STP believes). It's basic Dispensationalism.

However, you're both wrong.

Again, this 2P2P nonsense didn't exist until Darby invented it in 1830.
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The 'one day' the passage is referring to has come, but all proper NT theology says that the new and old ages overlap. To be exclusively either way is error. This is true individually (Rom 7) as well as cosmically.

As for 2P2P nonsense, yes other people than Darby have made the mistake. The important point is that it is not what the apostles thought. If you both would check church historians (like Lattourrette p43) you'll see that another go for Israel was simply a guess after the DofJ by the remaining generation of Christians, because it was their belief like Paul, that the whole thing was going to be over and done right after the Mt24A events of the DofJ. This is why Paul is so immediate when referring to the final judgement.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
The 'one day' the passage is referring to has come, but all proper NT theology says that the new and old ages overlap. To be exclusively either way is error. This is true individually (Rom 7) as well as cosmically.

As for 2P2P nonsense, yes other people than Darby have made the mistake. The important point is that it is not what the apostles thought. If you both would check church historians (like Lattourrette p43) you'll see that another go for Israel was simply a guess after the DofJ by the remaining generation of Christians, because it was their belief like Paul, that the whole thing was going to be over and done right after the Mt24A events of the DofJ. This is why Paul is so immediate when referring to the final judgement.
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:chuckle:
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
SaulToPaul said:
Why doesn't Tet want the earth to ever be subdued and ruled righteously?
Satan doesn't either.
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I don't know if that true, but no matter: it is the NHNE that is subdued. This world actually ends with a short rebellion that harasses all believers, and is overthrown by Christ in the swift change from this world to the next. All Christians can do in this age is proclaim that this world belongs to Christ, both in the individual sense and to leaders of nations.

The mistakes of pop eschatology is 1, the add all kinds of Judaic geo-political events to this and 2, to draw out the timeframe for #1.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
I don't know if that true, but no matter: it is the NHNE that is. This world actually ends with a short rebellion that harasses all believers, and is overthrown by Christ in the swift change from this world to the next.

The mistakes of pop eschatology is 1, the add all kinds of Judaic geo-political events to this and 2, to draw out the timeframe for #1.
Click to expand...

Tet's world continues on forever, as it is, wicked.
What kind of Kingdom is that?
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
tetelestai said:
Christ Jesus has dominion of the earth right now.

(Eph 1:22) And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,

Before Paul said what he did in verse 22, he also said:

(Eph 1:21) not only in the present age but also in the one to come....

The "age to come" began in 70AD.

Which means, all things are under His feet, and that He is the head over everything right now.

Why do you deny these things Paul said, and make it a future event that hasn't happened yet?
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Because even a child can see that they have not been fulfilled.

When Christ reigns there will be NO sin allowed in the kingdom on earth.

That "just a spiritual kingdom" garbage has driven you insane.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
tetelestai said:
What makes you think it isn't?

(Rom 13:1) Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

What does God do with these authorities?

(Rom 13:4) For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

Verse 4 tells us that God uses rulers as His servants and agents of wrath. That sounds like the definition of "subdue" to me.

Maybe you or mysteryboy can explain how "God's wrath" exists during what you guys call "the age of grace"?
Click to expand...
You dictionary theologians are hilarious. Any "matching word" means that it is the SAME exact thing as any other "matching word".

When God pours out HIS wrath on the world, HE will be doing it Himself.

Rev 19:15 (AKJV/PCE)​
(19:15) And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. ​

You're are an idiot If you think that Christ has smitten the nations and is currently ruling them with an iron rod.
 
W

Wick Stick

Well-known member
SaulToPaul said:
:up:

The job given to Adam to subdude and have dominion is still yet undone. That's the purpose of the 1000 years, along with the promise to restore the years the locust had eaten.
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We have very different beliefs most of the time, but it appears we agree on this.

Who'da thunk?
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Wick Stick said:
We have very different beliefs most of the time, but it appears we agree on this.

Who'da thunk?
Click to expand...



The problem is actually finding the thing in the teaching of the apostles. You'd have to go with Rom 8, but what I mean is that that 1000 years thing has all kinds of Judaic trappings to it (as popularly taught--tribes, etc) that would be total anachronisms. And it is out of the way before the NHNE comes.

That's the problem: when the apostles speak of the NHNE there are no Judaic features, so there can't be a drawn out set of geo-political events or 1000 years. This world ends and the NHNE comes quickly after. That's where man will be what he was to be.

There's another problem with "subdude" (lol) the earth. It is connected to the chaotic situation. The instruction was given when the earth was being changed from the chaotic 'formless and void' to good. Anyone figured out why 'good' has to be subdued? Man's part is just mopping up, if you understand the 'formless and void' setting.

But the NHNE is not that tangible. Read for yourself: God and Christ are its temple and its light; there is no sun. There's no marriage; there's no genders.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
SaulToPaul said:
:chuckle:
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Indeed. See I cor 15:40-49. There are heavenly bodies but they have a different order of splendor, even though the earthly has its own kind. Many people think all the NHNE is only a restored earthly splendor. Check Islam on that!!! (Mr. Mo was scared spitless of his declining sexual life!)
 
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