Tasted Death for every Man !

[beloved57]

Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

The every Man in Vs 9 refers to the Many Sons He suffered and died for, resulting in Him being the Captain of their Salvation. This therefore also speaks of effectual atonement since them He suffered and tasted death for resulted in Him being the Captain of their Salvation bringing them to Glory.

 

[Omniskeptical]

@beloved57 People taste death every day the get older. What is your point?

 

[marke]

Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

The every Man in Vs 9 refers to the Many Sons He suffered and died for, resulting in Him being the Captain of their Salvation. This therefore also speaks of effectual atonement since them He suffered and tasted death for resulted in Him being the Captain of their Salvation bringing them to Glory.

Would God be just to condemn some sinners without hope while saving others under the same rule?

 

[beloved57]

@beloved57 People taste death every day the get older. What is your point?

Read the thread if you want to know my point, thats why I started it.

 

[Derf]

Read the thread if you want to know my point, thats why I started it.

"Because I just want to preach at people and hear them say amen."

 

[marke]

Would God be just to condemn some sinners without hope while saving others under the same rule?

No, God would not condemn some and not others for reasons that are strictly secret with Him and not openly just.

 

[Arial]

No, God would not condemn some and not others for reasons that are strictly secret with Him and not openly just.

People are condemned for a reason. Because of their sin. All people are condemned. God in His mercy saves some. Eph 1:5 He predestined us for adoption as His sones through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.

God is not obligated to tell us anything, and He is the measure of justice, not us. If He does something, it is just because He is just. How we feel about it does not enter into the picture. We have extremely limited vision.

 

[marke]

People are condemned for a reason. Because of their sin. All people are condemned. God in His mercy saves some. Eph 1:5 He predestined us for adoption as His sones through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.

God is not obligated to tell us anything, and He is the measure of justice, not us. If He does something, it is just because He is just. How we feel about it does not enter into the picture. We have extremely limited vision.

Calling injustice justice is no way to honor God. God condemns nobody to hell but those who condemn themselves by rejecting the light given them by the Holy Spirit that they clearly understand and reject.

John 1:9
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Romans 1:19-21​

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King James Version​

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19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.​

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:​

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.​

 

[Arial]

Calling injustice justice is no way to honor God. God condemns nobody to hell but those who condemn themselves by rejecting the light given them by the Holy Spirit that they clearly understand and reject.

John 1:9
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Romans 1:19-21​

​

King James Version​

​

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.​

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:​

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.​

Are you omniscient? Do you think that "that which may be known of God" means we know everything about Him and everything that goes on in the heavenlies where He is.? Do you think any created being has the right to talk back to the Creator?

Calling injustice justice is no way to honor God

Did you not understand what I said? God is the measure of justice, not His creatures.

God condemns nobody to hell but those who condemn themselves by rejecting the light given them by the Holy Spirit that they clearly understand and reject.

Only those who are saved (have already been brought into the light) have the Holy Spirit.

 

[marke]

Are you omniscient? Do you think that "that which may be known of God" means we know everything about Him and everything that goes on in the heavenlies where He is.? Do you think any created being has the right to talk back to the Creator?

God delights to prove He is just before men. He delights to reason with men to persuade them of His righteousness. He does not try to prove He can do unjustly and still be just, while maintaining if men do the same unjust things they are unjust.

Genesis 18:24-26

King James Version

24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?26 And the Lord said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.​

Did you not understand what I said? God is the measure of justice, not His creatures.

God cannot do evil. It is a big error to say God can do evil but it is not evil when He does it.

Job 34:10
Therefore hearken unto me ye men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity.

 

[Arial]

God delights to prove He is just before men. He delights to reason with men to persuade them of His righteousness. He does not try to prove He can do unjustly and still be just, while maintaining if men do the same unjust things they are unjust.

I see you are absolutely unable to recognize that God is not just a great big you. And you are still measuring God by yourself. He doesn't do unjustly. It is just more that you can't see than what you can see---but God sees it all and governs it all.

God cannot do evil. It is a big error to say God can do evil but it is not evil when He does it.

If someone gave the decree for an army to invade another land and kill all the men, women and children in that land, would you see that as evil?

 

[marke]

I see you are absolutely unable to recognize that God is not just a great big you. And you are still measuring God by yourself. He doesn't do unjustly. It is just more that you can't see than what you can see---but God sees it all and governs it all.

If someone gave the decree for an army to invade another land and kill all the men, women and children in that land, would you see that as evil?

The Bible does not say that if God does evil it would be righteous. The Bible says God cannot do evil. God judges all men by the same just standard. He does not judge some sinners by one standard and others by another.

 

[Arial]

The Bible does not say that if God does evil it would be righteous.

That is not what I said. Let me clarify. If a human commanded that one army destroy every man, woman and child in a land, that man would be evil. I am sure you would agree with that. If God commands Israel to destroy every man, woman and child in a particular place, as He did, would you call Him evil? Hopefully not. Hopefully you would realize that He never does evil as the Bible tells us. Therefore, even though you do not like it, you would submit these emotions to God, knowing that there must be things you cannot see and cannot know that He can and does.

God judges all men by the same just standard. He does not judge some sinners by one standard and others by another.

Actually in a sense He does. Those who are joined to Christ through faith are judged according to Christ's righteousness. But that is because Christ has satisfied God's justice against their sins by taking the penalty upon Himself.

And if some believe that God is the one that brings about this salvation in some according to His own good pleasure and purpose, and they believe this because they genuinely believe the Bible says this; you can believe differently without saying or believing that their belief makes God evil. After all, was God evil when He chose Jacob over Esau, David over all his older brothers, Solomon over all of David's other children, Mary over all other women in the world? Israel over all other nations?

 

[marke]

That is not what I said. Let me clarify. If a human commanded that one army destroy every man, woman and child in a land, that man would be evil. I am sure you would agree with that. If God commands Israel to destroy every man, woman and child in a particular place, as He did, would you call Him evil? Hopefully not. Hopefully you would realize that He never does evil as the Bible tells us. Therefore, even though you do not like it, you would submit these emotions to God, knowing that there must be things you cannot see and cannot know that He can and does.

I do not believe killing others in war is evil, nor is it murder. God cannot do evil and God cannot commit murder because evil and murder are wrong and God cannot do wrong, whether by humans or by God.

Actually in a sense He does. Those who are joined to Christ through faith are judged according to Christ's righteousness. But that is because Christ has satisfied God's justice against their sins by taking the penalty upon Himself.

Jesus died for the sins of all sinners in the world so that whosoever would might be saved.

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

John 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

And if some believe that God is the one that brings about this salvation in some according to His own good pleasure and purpose, and they believe this because they genuinely believe the Bible says this; you can believe differently without saying or believing that their belief makes God evil. After all, was God evil when He chose Jacob over Esau, David over all his older brothers, Solomon over all of David's other children, Mary over all other women in the world? Israel over all other nations?

God rejected Esau because Esau despised his birthright from God.

Genesis 25:34
Then Jacob gave Esau bread and pottage of lentiles; and he did eat and drink, and rose up, and went his way: thus Esau despised his birthright.

 

[Arial]

God rejected Esau because Esau despised his birthright from God.

God chose Jacob before the twins were even born.

As to the whole world, unless you believe in universalialism, there is another usage of the term world in those passages, other than everyone in the whole world. We find the meaning within other scriptures. People of all nations, tribes and languages----all nations, not just Israel.

 

[marke]

God chose Jacob before the twins were even born.

As to the whole world, unless you believe in universalialism, there is another usage of the term world in those passages, other than everyone in the whole world. We find the meaning within other scriptures. People of all nations, tribes and languages----all nations, not just Israel.

God chooses everyone before they are born because He knows the end from the beginning and everything about everyone, especially whether they will receive the truth or not.

 

[Arial]

God chooses everyone before they are born because He knows the end from the beginning and everything about everyone, especially whether they will receive the truth or not.

I am not going to argue against your beliefs if none of them contradict the person and work of Christ unto salvation. However, I do not see anywhere that scripture supports the claim you make here.

 

[beloved57]

God chooses everyone before they are born because He knows the end from the beginning and everything about everyone, especially whether they will receive the truth or not.

False statement not anywhere found in scripture.

 

[marke]

False statement not anywhere found in scripture.

Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

The Lord knew the end from the beginning, proving He knew everything about everyone born in between the end and the beginning.

Isaiah 46:10
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

The Lord calls sinners to repent but whether they repent or not is their choice, not God's. The following verse proves God reacts to man's reaction to His word. He does not make men react the way they react - they do that on their own.

Isaiah 55:7
Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

 

[beloved57]

He tasted death for every man. The immediate context clarifies who the every man are in Heb 2:9-10


But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 “For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. The suffering here culminates into His death in Vs 9

He tasted death for everyone of the many sons, that is supported by the immediate context.