Suicidality and the Second Amendment

Idolater

"Lahey, I live in a tent!"
Pertinent threads:

About two-thirds of gun deaths in America are by suicide.

But what you may not know and I certainly didn't appreciate it til this week, is that mass shooters, school shooters, are invariably wavering between suicide and homicide leading up to their massacres.

You've noticed like I have, that a great proportion of these criminals get killed during the massacre by either police or another innocent person who kills him (it's always a him). I've called them "Kamikaze" for years because of this outcome, which I just attributed to them accomplishing what they intended to do, which appeared to be to murder as many people as possible before dying themselves.

But I didn't know about their uniform struggle with suicidality. This makes them not Kamikaze, the Kamikaze were willing to die to accomplish their mission, but they weren't otherwise thinking of dying.

So what are our policies right now for helping people who are struggling with suicidality? With suicidal tendencies, suicidal thoughts, suicidal ideations? What's causing it? How can we stop it?

All are welcome here.
 
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ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
During a dark period in my life when I struggled with depression, I found relief through service to others
 

Idolater

"Lahey, I live in a tent!"
During a dark period in my life when I struggled with depression, I found relief through service to others
I know we tend to be right-leaning here, which means minimal government service, but are there any services our government is already providing that could be expanded, or are there any new services our government could offer citizens who struggle with this horrible problem?

The cost of anything like this would just be chalked up to the cost of our freedom, like our military spending, and spending to keep our government's branches running.

It seems like it would be a tiny cost, compared to say, offering a million USD to buyback everybody's guns. Just to stop suicide.

There's got to be a more rational way to help people with suicidality than to do what England and Australia did, and what basically every other stable democracy do now wrt gun rights. The problem, or the single biggest cause of the problem of gun violence, is suicidality, not guns.
 

ffreeloader

Well-known member
During a dark period in my life when I struggled with depression, I found relief through service to others
This is why Jesus tells us that the peace He gives us is so far superior to the peace the world gives us as He spent his entire life in service to others.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
I know we tend to be right-leaning here, which means minimal government service, but are there any services our government is already providing that could be expanded, or are there any new services our government could offer citizens who struggle with this horrible problem?

The cost of anything like this would just be chalked up to the cost of our freedom, like our military spending, and spending to keep our government's branches running.

It seems like it would be a tiny cost, compared to say, offering a million USD to buyback everybody's guns. Just to stop suicide.

There's got to be a more rational way to help people with suicidality than to do what England and Australia did, and what basically every other stable democracy do now wrt gun rights. The problem, or the single biggest cause of the problem of gun violence, is suicidality, not guns.
Gun rights and suicidality are two separate things, not intertwined and England, Australia etc never had a 'gun culture' to start with as that's pretty much a USA only thing. It's irrational to state that countries that don't have a gun culture try to help people prone to depression by not allowing them to own guns or some such.
 

marke

Well-known member
Gun rights and suicidality are two separate things, not intertwined and England, Australia etc never had a 'gun culture' to start with as that's pretty much a USA only thing. It's irrational to state that countries that don't have a gun culture try to help people prone to depression by not allowing them to own guns or some such.
Lefty elitists have no respect for the Americans who enjoy hunting, fishing, and driving gas-guzzling vehicles.
 

Idolater

"Lahey, I live in a tent!"
Gun rights and suicidality are two separate things, not intertwined
America has established otherwise. Two-thirds of gun deaths in the USA are suicides. And as OP failed to mention clearly, many of the gun deaths from mass shootings are also, collateral damage from suicides.

It's irrational to state that countries that don't have a gun culture try to help people prone to depression by not allowing them to own guns or some such.
Good thing I never stated or implied that then I guess.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
America has established otherwise. Two-thirds of gun deaths in the USA are suicides. And as OP failed to mention clearly, many of the gun deaths from mass shootings are also, collateral damage from suicides.


Good thing I never stated or implied that then I guess.
Then why bring England, Australia etc into the equation at all in regards to "gun rights"?
 

marke

Well-known member
Then why bring England, Australia etc into the equation at all in regards to "gun rights"?
America should learn valuable lessons from other nations who have either voluntarily given up their freedoms or had their freedoms stripped away from them by corrupted tyrants, and Americans should never give up their freedoms.
 

Idolater

"Lahey, I live in a tent!"
America should learn valuable lessons from other nations
We should. America is no longer an "experiment."

Our constitution and regime has stood the test of time

By now it's everybody else who's still "experimenting."
who have either voluntarily given up their freedoms or had their freedoms stripped away from them by corrupted tyrants, and Americans should never give up their freedoms.
Yep.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
You folks are infamous around here for confiscating guns in mass quantities. In case you didn't know that.
"You folks"? I'm not interesting in confiscating yours or anyone else's guns thanks. I am interested in seeing changes to laws that make it more difficult for people like Ramos to get hold of such so easily but that's not the same thing. Again, why bring countries that have no such gun culture into the equation at all?
 

Idolater

"Lahey, I live in a tent!"
"You folks"? I'm not interesting in confiscating yours or anyone else's guns thanks. I am interested in seeing changes to laws that make it more difficult for people like Ramos to get hold of such so easily but that's not the same thing.
That's nice. Your regime and Australia's regime is known to have confiscated tons of civilian owned "assault weapons". And then of course followed up with complete bans on any of you all ever being able to own one again.
Again, why bring countries that have no such gun culture into the equation at all?
It wasn't an equation. Perhaps that's your problem. Maybe read what I wrote again, until you can see, that I was only using you all illustratively, and not at all saying that somehow these un-American gun confiscations and bans were to address suicidality in your countries.

It's just something your regimes did, and continue to do. And I was saying, I don't think that's the answer, for America.

Or for humans, but America is the topic of the thread.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
That's nice. Your regime and Australia's regime is known to have confiscated tons of civilian owned "assault weapons". And then of course followed up with complete bans on any of you all ever being able to own one again.

It wasn't an equation. Perhaps that's your problem. Maybe read what I wrote again, until you can see, that I was only using you all illustratively, and not at all saying that somehow these un-American gun confiscations and bans were to address suicidality in your countries.

It's just something your regimes did, and continue to do. And I was saying, I don't think that's the answer, for America.

Or for humans, but America is the topic of the thread.
Pfft, I don't want to own a gun or have anything like the gun culture that's prevalent in America. Most all countries don't and don't want it either. Hopefully there'll be more sensible laws enacted that deny teenagers access to weapons of such destruction as evidenced in the latest massacre along with stringent safeguards to ensure that those owning any firearm have to pass background tests et al also.

If America is the topic of your thread then stop bringing other countries into it and asinine notions that their lack of having guns/gun culture is even remotely connected to suicide.
 

marke

Well-known member
"You folks"? I'm not interesting in confiscating yours or anyone else's guns thanks. I am interested in seeing changes to laws that make it more difficult for people like Ramos to get hold of such so easily but that's not the same thing. Again, why bring countries that have no such gun culture into the equation at all?
You clearly want to change American traditions, laws, views, and values about 2nd Amendment rights because you personally do not like Americans enjoying those rights. You are not alone. There are also thousands of American Marxists who despise those traditions, views, values, and rights as you do.
 

Idolater

"Lahey, I live in a tent!"
What, is your problem Arthur. I've demonstrated I never did nor implied what you're accusing me of. You've got a hair across your ... and I don't know why. You're welcome in the thread, and you're even welcome to continue without justification to attack me, but I honestly do not know what you're on about here.
, I don't want to own a gun or have anything like the gun culture that's prevalent in America.
No one said you did. No one said you should!
Most all countries don't and don't want it either.
Who cares?
Hopefully there'll be more sensible laws enacted that deny teenagers access to weapons of such destruction as evidenced in the latest massacre along with stringent safeguards to ensure that those owning any firearm have to pass background tests et al also.
Well none of that happened.
If America is the topic of your thread then stop bringing other countries into it and asinine notions
I didn't mention, any of those. You did though.
that their lack of having guns/gun culture is even remotely connected to suicide.
Case in point!
 

Idolater

"Lahey, I live in a tent!"
Yep, Highland Park mass shooter was suicidal.

"In April 2019, local police went to the family home after receiving a report [the mass murderer] had tried to take his own life a week earlier. Officers spoke with him and his parents and were told mental health professionals were handling the matter, [Chris Covelli, spokesperson for the Lake County Major Crimes Task Force] said."

Since he didn't force a "suicide by cop" situation it was unclear if this mass murderer bucked the trend of these mass murderers, but then this news surfaced.

Yep, suicidal.
 
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