Stolen Valor - the glory of liars

PureX

Well-known member
Once again you miss the point. It wasn't until we as a nation abandoned the founding principles that we became, as a nation, greedy and completely selfish.
Our nation did not abandon those principals, it simple never achieved them to begin with. And we have been struggling since our beginning to do so. Hence, the Native American genocide, the Civil War, and the many civil rights battles since then. And we are still fighting for the right to be treated equally under the law. With equal access to life, liberty, and opportunity. The right to be of whatever religion we choose, and the right to be free of religious restrictions, impositions, and persecutions.
That's exactly what the Jews did time and time again. They walked away from God's principles and acted like the devil. It's the history of mankind,
The history of mankind is an endless battle within itself to try and achieve those 'divine' principals of equality, liberty, and opportunity. The question is; who's side of that struggle are you on? Are you on the side of those who are trying to make freedom, justice, and opportunity available to everyone, equally? Or are you trying to create a society where those who look, think, and behave as you do get to tell everyone else how to look, think, and behave?
Any and every nation that has abandoned God's law has always become evil and liberty and freedom are the foundation of God's government.
As far as I am aware, there has never been a "Godly nation" on the Earth. Such perfection has not yet been achieved, by anyone.
 

marke

Well-known member
Our nation did not abandon those principals, it simple never achieved them to begin with. And we have been struggling since our beginning to do so. Hence, the Native American genocide, the Civil War, and the many civil rights battles since then. And we are still fighting for the right to be treated equally under the law. With equal access to life, liberty, and opportunity. The right to be of whatever religion we choose, and the right to be free of religious restrictions, impositions, and persecutions.

The history of mankind is an endless battle within itself to try and achieve those 'divine' principals of equality, liberty, and opportunity. The question is; who's side of that struggle are you on? Are you on the side of those who are trying to make freedom, justice, and opportunity available to everyone, equally? Or are you trying to create a society where those who look, think, and behave as you do get to tell everyone else how to look, think, and behave?

As far as I am aware, there has never been a "Godly nation" on the Earth. Such perfection has not yet been achieved, by anyone.
It might help to do a comparison of the freedoms citizens in America have compared to the lack of freedoms in communist nations like N. Korea. Americans should appreciate that America was founded by men who were heavily influenced by early Christians.
 

PureX

Well-known member
Christians and good Americans are not in the dark. We have the Bible. We have the Constitution. And we have hundreds of years of tried and proven moral laws.
And so far, they have failed to achieve their intention. As half-measures were never the goal. And we are all to blame for this. Because in our selfishness and fear, we become willing to let those with the least among be sacrificed to the delusion that we are a great and moral nation.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
Our nation did not abandon those principals, it simple never achieved them to begin with. And we have been struggling since our beginning to do so. Hence, the Native American genocide,
Overwhelmingly attributable to disease introduced during the period of exploration and largely accomplished before the period of colonization
the Civil War,
A struggle to end slavery doesn't count?
 

PureX

Well-known member
It might help to do a comparison of the freedoms citizens in America have compared to the lack of freedoms in communist nations like N. Korea. Americans should appreciate that America was founded by men who were heavily influenced by early Christians.
Does the failure of other nations somehow justify the failures of our own? Especially when we specifically spelled out these goals (for the first time in history, I think), and then failed to achieve them because of our own collective greed , stupidity, and selfishness? It's sort of like a child molester pointing at a rapist and saying "see, I'm really not that bad!"
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
... our own collective greed , stupidity, and selfishness?
You indict yourself


... and ignore the sacrifice of the majority of American citizenry, the mothers and fathers who sacrifice to raise their kids, those who choose altruistic career paths and sacrifice to help others, those who fill their spare time with volunteerism and community service.
 

marke

Well-known member
And so far, they have failed to achieve their intention. As half-measures were never the goal. And we are all to blame for this. Because in our selfishness and fear, we become willing to let those with the least among be sacrificed to the delusion that we are a great and moral nation.
In as much as America honors God America is great. In as much as America dishonors God America is evil.
 

PureX

Well-known member
In as much as America honors God America is great. In as much as America dishonors God America is evil.
Right now, all America honors is money. Money is the measure of all value, here. There are lots of people trying to live a good and honest lives, but they have to constantly struggle against a system that’s completely controlled by greed, and a culture that glorifies selfishness as a birthright at every turn.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
Right now, all America honors is money.
In your schizophrenia-addled state, what do you think you mean by "all America"?
Money is the measure of all value, here.
You are projecting
There are lots of people trying to live a good and honest lives
And they disprove your assertion
but they have to constantly struggle
Life is struggle
Struggle is good
Overcoming adversity builds character
against a system that’s completely controlled by greed,
Okay so not "all America" but "a system"

Which system are you referring to?

and a culture that glorifies selfishness
that is a culture that's easy to turn away from and ignore
 

marke

Well-known member
Right now, all America honors is money. Money is the measure of all value, here. There are lots of people trying to live a good and honest lives, but they have to constantly struggle against a system that’s completely controlled by greed, and a culture that glorifies selfishness as a birthright at every turn.
You paint a negative picture with a very broad brush.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
You paint a negative picture with a very broad brush.
Sounds to me like he needs to get out and volunteer at a soup kitchen or a homeless center or a veterans outreach center. A hospice. An elder care center. A literacy program for underserved inner-city youths.
 

ffreeloader

Well-known member
Our nation did not abandon those principals, it simple never achieved them to begin with. And we have been struggling since our beginning to do so. Hence, the Native American genocide, the Civil War, and the many civil rights battles since then. And we are still fighting for the right to be treated equally under the law. With equal access to life, liberty, and opportunity. The right to be of whatever religion we choose, and the right to be free of religious restrictions, impositions, and persecutions.

The history of mankind is an endless battle within itself to try and achieve those 'divine' principals of equality, liberty, and opportunity. The question is; who's side of that struggle are you on? Are you on the side of those who are trying to make freedom, justice, and opportunity available to everyone, equally? Or are you trying to create a society where those who look, think, and behave as you do get to tell everyone else how to look, think, and behave?

As far as I am aware, there has never been a "Godly nation" on the Earth. Such perfection has not yet been achieved, by anyone.
Your hatred of the US comes from a mind operating on impossible ideals here on planet earth. Start listing the nations of the earth that have achieved spiritual perfection. It's going to be a very short list. You yourself cannot make the list, even as an individual, yet that is the standard you expect the nation to have achieved,.

As a Christian my goal for 40+ years my life goal has always been the same standard as the life of Christ. I have not reached it yet. I know of no one who has and that includes you so your judgement of your fellow man has been made with zero mercy for them. In other words your judgement of your fellow man is exactly the same as the accuser of the brethren which is exactly the opposite of the view God takes of you and I.

Methinks you need to evaluate your own heart.
 

PureX

Well-known member
Your hatred of the US comes from a mind operating on impossible ideals here on planet earth. Start listing the nations of the earth that have achieved spiritual perfection. It's going to be a very short list. You yourself cannot make the list, even as an individual, yet that is the standard you expect the nation to have achieved,.

As a Christian my goal for 40+ years my life goal has always been the same standard as the life of Christ. I have not reached it yet. I know of no one who has and that includes you so your judgement of your fellow man has been made with zero mercy for them. In other words your judgement of your fellow man is exactly the same as the accuser of the brethren which is exactly the opposite of the view God takes of you and I.

Methinks you need to evaluate your own heart.
You can think what you want, but all I'm seeing here are just excuses for why we (and maybe you) aren't doing better. Being Christlike was always an impossibly difficult challenge. Love, forgiveness, kindness, and generosity are difficult to embody in a "dog-eat-dog" world. And yet it seems a great many so called Christians these days prefer to support and enable all that greed and competition. They not only want the 'dog-eat-dog' world to continue, they want to be the biggest dogs in it. There is no excusing this. It's reprehensible.
 

ffreeloader

Well-known member
You can think what you want, but all I'm seeing here are just excuses for why we (and maybe you) aren't doing better. Being Christlike was always an impossibly difficult challenge. Love, forgiveness, kindness, and generosity are difficult to embody in a "dog-eat-dog" world. And yet it seems a great many so called Christians these days prefer to support and enable all that greed and competition. They not only want the 'dog-eat-dog' world to continue, they want to be the biggest dogs in it. There is no excusing this. It's reprehensible.
You just confirmed what I said. You see only what you want to see because you judge like the accuser of the brethren. Do all temptations hold the same power over you or are some harder to resist? Is your experience exactly the same as every one else? Is your judgement perfect? Are your flaws exactly the same as all other people?

Who made you judge, jury and executioner of everyone else? Jesus said that the standard by which we judge others is the same standard by which we ourselves will be judged. Is the standard by which you judge others really the way you want to be judged when you stand before God?
 

PureX

Well-known member
You just confirmed what I said. You see only what you want to see because you judge like the accuser of the brethren.
Someone needs to accuse the "brethren" because they clearly have decided not to accuse themselves. They've decided to make excuses and wallow in their own imagined self-righteousness, instead.
Do all temptations hold the same power over you or are some harder to resist? Is your experience exactly the same as every one else? Is your judgement perfect? Are your flaws exactly the same as all other people?
No. Which is why I don't presume my sins to be any less loathsome than anyone else's. And why it's not my place to blame a sinner for their sins, and use this as an axcuse to condemn and humiliate them, and dismiss them.
Who made you judge, jury and executioner of everyone else? Jesus said that the standard by which we judge others is the same standard by which we ourselves will be judged. Is the standard by which you judge others really the way you want to be judged when you stand before God?
So why are Christians all acting like homosexuality is so much worse than their own greed and selfishness? Why are they all telling themselves that liberals and democrats are evil demons because their sins are so much worse than anyone else's? Why are you excusing the failure of the United States to stop institutionalized racism, sexism, and classism even after 300 years of people struggling to be free and equal under the law? And instead are supporting people that are intent on denying it's even real?

And why do I have to ask you these questions? Why aren't you asking them, yourself?
 

marke

Well-known member
You can think what you want, but all I'm seeing here are just excuses for why we (and maybe you) aren't doing better. Being Christlike was always an impossibly difficult challenge. Love, forgiveness, kindness, and generosity are difficult to embody in a "dog-eat-dog" world. And yet it seems a great many so called Christians these days prefer to support and enable all that greed and competition. They not only want the 'dog-eat-dog' world to continue, they want to be the biggest dogs in it. There is no excusing this. It's reprehensible.

Let's evaluate the opinions to see what we should think:

The majority of American whites are racists whether they know it or not.
Too many blacks are racists and don't know it.
Trump is bad.
Biden is bad.
The FBI is good.
The FBI is bad.
Democrats committed voter fraud in 2020 and in nearly every election for the last 100 years.
Democrats would never commit voter fraud, especially since they focus more on looting stores, burning down cities, and bussing illegals into every state in the union to feed and clothe them.

We could go on.
 

PureX

Well-known member
Let's evaluate the opinions to see what we should think:

The majority of American whites are racists whether they know it or not.
Too many blacks are racists and don't know it.
Trump is bad.
Biden is bad.
The FBI is good.
The FBI is bad.
Democrats committed voter fraud in 2020 and in nearly every election for the last 100 years.
Democrats would never commit voter fraud, especially since they focus more on looting stores, burning down cities, and bussing illegals into every state in the union to feed and clothe them.

We could go on.
Go where? I don't see where this post is going.
 

ffreeloader

Well-known member
Someone needs to accuse the "brethren" because they clearly have decided not to accuse themselves. They've decided to make excuses and wallow in their own imagined self-righteousness, instead.

No. Which is why I don't presume my sins to be any less loathsome than anyone else's. And why it's not my place to blame a sinner for their sins, and use this as an axcuse to condemn and humiliate them, and dismiss them.

So why are Christians all acting like homosexuality is so much worse than their own greed and selfishness? Why are they all telling themselves that liberals and democrats are evil demons because their sins are so much worse than anyone else's? Why are you excusing the failure of the United States to stop institutionalized racism, sexism, and classism even after 300 years of people struggling to be free and equal under the law? And instead are supporting people that are intent on denying it's even real?

And why do I have to ask you these questions? Why aren't you asking them, yourself?
With that I cannot disagree. Self righteousness is the worst sin of all. I am also guilty of it myself. I think all of us are. Thanks for the honesty. I for one needed to hear it.
 
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