ECT Speaking in tongues

[TweetyBird]

Yeah that's how I received it, while walking across a field. Awesome.

Then for sure it was not God, because all tongues were given publicly. None privately.

No, because no man could understand it.

You don't get it. If it were angelic tongues, men would not be able to speak it.

No you didn't. Are you telling me you spoke in a useless language for many years?
How dumb is that?

It's not a language, that's why it's false.

Sounds like you were messed up bigtime. Nothing changes, huh?

As messed up as everyone else who thinks they are speaking in tongues. Nothing changes does it? This fake manifestation will never go away. Too many people are drunk on it.

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

1 Corinthians 14:15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding.

Once again, Paul did not say he prayed in tongues. He said IF. He was giving another example of why tongues must always be understood by everyone or it would be as silly as praying in tongues - he wouldn't understand it and no one else would either - so what good is it?

It is man's spirit communicating with God's spirit.

Not it's not. We are told how to communicate with the Lord all the way through the Bible. And it's not by speaking senseless sounds, and calling it a language, to God. There is no purpose for that at all, ever.

 

[lifeisgood]

That was then.

But this side of that which is perfect we have access to knowing what to pray for as we ought.

One more aspect of God's having fully revealed the Mystery of His will, the study of which resulted in Mid-Acts Dispensationalism and what it is meant to allow - the clear understanding of - how prayer works during this Mystery Age - as to what and how to pray for what, as we ought...

Ephesians 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

Don't care for 'titles' I'm MAD, I'm Mid-MAD (I mean Mid-Acts), etc.

Never heard that we are in the 'Mystery Age'.

The Apostle Paul's prayers...our pattern of what to pray for as we ought.

So, you, Danoh, are saying that when Paul said that sometimes we don't know what to pray for as we ought, you, Danoh, believe Paul was lie-ing. Got it.

 

[lifeisgood]

Not it's not. We are told how to communicate with the Lord all the way through the Bible. And it's not by speaking senseless sounds, and calling it a language, to God. There is no purpose for that at all, ever.

No purpose for God. However, Paul said in 1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself (not in the church though).

If I am still in the dispensation of Grace (which I believe I am), I expect all the gifts of the Spirit to be in force today.

 

[Interplanner]

Please see 'MAD fails on the gift and age of the Spirit' thread. We need big picturization here.

 

[TweetyBird]

Paul said: "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than you all" --- and no way was Paul talking more than them all in the church, because in the next verse he says that 'in the church' he does not speak in tongues so that he can instruct others.

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;

1 Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than you all:

However, not in the church.

Once again, you are not reading the entire chapter and taking a snippet out of context. Paul actually says the same thing twice, the second time he makes it clear that he is talking about being in the assembly, not outside of it. Tongues was public, never private.

1 Cor 14
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 19 yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

 

[TweetyBird]

Never entered in my mind that I need faith for a medicine to heal.
A medicine does not heal.
God heals.

Then you don't need medicine, right?

 

[TweetyBird]

I believe that; someone else in here said if one of the gifts of the Spirit is gone then they are all gone.

I was not talking about the gifts of the Spirit when I said that God has been healing miraculously since Genesis.

I believe that all the gifts of the Spirit are also for this dispensation.
Unless I missed something and we no longer are in the dispensation of grace.

That's a great view, if it were the truth. But there is no evidence of the gifts of the Spirit since the first century in the body of Christ. Imitations, yes, but not the real thing.

 

[andyc]

Then for sure it was not God, because all tongues were given publicly. None privately.

Ah so you think there's a formula to the distribution of the gifts?
Doesn't the Holy Spirit do it as he wills? Not as you will?

You don't get it. If it were angelic tongues, men would not be able to speak it.

You don't get it, which is understandable, there are no tongues in angels mouths. They are spirits. God doesn't have ear drums to hear angels talking to him. The language of someone speaking in an angelic tongue doesn't exist. You are so slow to understand.
God is listening to the spirit, not the words spoken. For example, a baby can speak total gibberish, but the mother interprets the need. Now go and read what the context of what Paul was saying about reasoning as a child, and then putting away childish things.

It's not a language, that's why it's false.



As messed up as everyone else who thinks they are speaking in tongues. Nothing changes does it? This fake manifestation will never go away. Too many people are drunk on it.

Firstly, mine are not fake, and gladly it won't go away. Yours may have been, but I'm impressed that you persevered with it for many years. That must have been difficult LOL

Once again, Paul did not say he prayed in tongues. He said IF. He was giving another example of why tongues must always be understood by everyone or it would be as silly as praying in tongues - he wouldn't understand it and no one else would either - so what good is it?

Nope, he said "I will pray with the Spirit, and I will pray with the understanding". I believe he did.

Not it's not. We are told how to communicate with the Lord all the way through the Bible. And it's not by speaking senseless sounds, and calling it a language, to God. There is no purpose for that at all, ever.

The purpose is when there are times we don't know how to pray as we ought. The situation isn't black and white, or there could be demonic activity involved.

 

[lifeisgood]

Then you don't need medicine, right?

I am not against medicine(s), however, medicine does not heal.

A good example that medicine does not heal is that a person that has high blood pressure has to take that particular medicine for the rest of his/her life proving that that medicine does not heal high blood pressure.

If high blood pressure medicine healed, after a while of taking the medicine, the person would not need to take it anymore because the medicine healed the high blood pressure problem and the person no longer has high blood pressure. There is not one example that a medicine heal a person of high blood pressure. Not one single one.

 

[TweetyBird]

Depends on the cup of water, TB; it is VERY useful if NOT a cup of salt water :chuckle:

point taken :salute: :surf:

 

[lifeisgood]

I was not talking about the gifts of the Spirit when I said that God has been healing miraculously since Genesis.

I was because that is where the conversation started with 'gifts of the Spirit' many responses ago.

That's a great view, if it were the truth. But there is no evidence of the gifts of the Spirit since the first century in the body of Christ. Imitations, yes, but not the real thing.

See, you just proved my point that even though you if you 'saw' a gift of the Spirit in action, 'you' would not believe it because it did not happen to you.

 

[lifeisgood]

Once again, you are not reading the entire chapter and taking a snippet out of context. Paul actually says the same thing twice, the second time he makes it clear that he is talking about being in the assembly, not outside of it. Tongues was public, never private.

1 Cor 14
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 19 yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

None of it 'in the church':
1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;

1 Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than you all:

1 Co 14:15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding.

 

[TweetyBird]

The fact is, that if anyone spoke in a tongue in an assembly, no one understood the tongue, which is why it must be done in an orderly fashion, superseded by an interpretation. However, the fact remains, no one understands the tongue. Deal with it.

The text does say that, though. At Pentecost, all those present could understand what was spoken - each in their own language. Who says that in the assembly some did not understand? You are making things up to support your doctrine. In all three example of tongues in Acts, what was spoken in tongues was understood by some who heard.

I will pray with the Spirit, and I will pray with the understanding. No problem with me.

Every child of God through Christ prays with the Spirit. It's when the Holy Spirit puts things in your mind to pray for. It happens all the time for me. It is not some mystical process - it's because of the renewing of our minds.

Yeah...when you know what you want, ask for it.

And when you don't know what you want, you say, Lord - may your will be done and trust Him. God provides for me daily in ways that I never thought to ask for. It's really cool.

 

[TweetyBird]

No purpose for God. However, Paul said in 1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself (not in the church though).

If a child is licking a lollipop in the middle of a group of kids, he for sure is edified. Is it a good thing for everyone else.... not a chance.

If I am still in the dispensation of Grace (which I believe I am), I expect all the gifts of the Spirit to be in force today.

God's grace has been in effect since His first breath of creation. If all the gifts are present during this "dispensation" as you call it, then why is there no evidence of them since the first century in the body of Christ? Or did this "dispensation" start in the 1900s?

 

[lifeisgood]

If a child is licking a lollipop in the middle of a group of kids, he for sure is edified. Is it a good thing for everyone else.... not a chance.

It is edifying for him, though, which is supposed to be.

God's grace has been in effect since His first breath of creation. If all the gifts are present during this "dispensation" as you call it, then why is there no evidence of them since the first century in the body of Christ? Or did this "dispensation" start in the 1900s?

Because it has not happened to you, as you yourself said, 'Imitations, yes, but not the real thing.'

You said that if you 'saw' the gifts of the Spirit happening today, you would believe. I said, you would not because even if you 'saw' they are 'Imitations, yes, but not the real thing' proving my point that even though you assert that if you 'saw' you would believe, you say, 'Imitations, yes, but not the real thing'.

BTW: It is not I who say 'dispensation/administration' of grace but Paul (Ephesians 3:2)

 

[TweetyBird]

Ah so you think there's a formula to the distribution of the gifts?
Doesn't the Holy Spirit do it as he wills? Not as you will?

Yes, yes - as the Spirit wills. But there is no evidence of the gifts listed in 1 Cor 12 after the first century.

You don't get it, which is understandable, there are no tongues in angels mouths.

Maybe you can explain how they talked to mankind on occasion and all reports from those who were given the opportunity to see them in Heaven, heard and saw them speaking and singing praises to the Lord?

They are spirits. God doesn't have ear drums to hear angels talking to him. The language of someone speaking in an angelic tongue doesn't exist. You are so slow to understand.

So prayer to Him is hopeless then, because He cannot hear us. I wonder though, how He carried on those discussions with Moses, Elijah and Job, for example. Or when He said - by the mouth of the Lord or incline thine ear to me, O Lord, the Lord hears us when we cry out to Him. hmmmmm ... so God was just tricking us?

God is listening to the spirit, not the words spoken. For example, a baby can speak total gibberish, but the mother interprets the need. Now go and read what the context of what Paul was saying about reasoning as a child, and then putting away childish things.

I really do not know what to say other than ..... :kookoo:

Firstly, mine are not fake, and gladly it won't go away. Yours may have been, but I'm impressed that you persevered with it for many years. That must have been difficult LOL

No, it was not difficult. One can turn them on and off at will, which is just humanism - not spiritual at all. After a while it's just an impulse - a taught response - no thinking involved, just like breathing. Of course yours are fake. You don't understand a word of them, they are not interpreted, which is contrary to what Paul taught. They are not even a real language, which by definition, must be a real earthly language. You keep rambling on and on and if by your much speaking God is hearing you. Jesus taught us how to pray and what you are doing is not it.

Nope, he said "I will pray with the Spirit, and I will pray with the understanding". I believe he did.

IF he prayed in tongues, THEN that is how it would be done - but it would not be edifying to the assembly and therefore one would be a child to think they could do that.

The purpose is when there are times we don't know how to pray as we ought. The situation isn't black and white, or there could be demonic activity involved.

Rom 28:26 is not referring to praying in tongues. It is without sound - a soundless groan of the Spirit interceding on our behalf. There is no such thing as demonic activity going on when a child of God in Christ is praying to the Lord. Scheesh. What silliness.

 

[TweetyBird]

I am not against medicine(s), however, medicine does not heal.

A good example that medicine does not heal is that a person that has high blood pressure has to take that particular medicine for the rest of his/her life proving that that medicine does not heal high blood pressure.

If high blood pressure medicine healed, after a while of taking the medicine, the person would not need to take it anymore because the medicine healed the high blood pressure problem and the person no longer has high blood pressure. There is not one example that a medicine heal a person of high blood pressure. Not one single one.

Why do you keep saying that? BP meds are just one of 1000s. If a person takes an ibuprofen for a headache, the headache goes away. See how that works?

 

[TweetyBird]

I was because that is where the conversation started with 'gifts of the Spirit' many responses ago.



See, you just proved my point that even though you if you 'saw' a gift of the Spirit in action, 'you' would not believe it because it did not happen to you.

Seriously. If one sees a gift of the Spirit being given to someone, it does not have to be me. How goofy to keep saying that it's just for me. There have been NO gifts of the Spirit given to anyone in the body of Christ since the first century. If God wants to give them and I see them happening around the body of Christ, I would be thrilled. So far, I have not seen them "in operation" according to the NT record.

 

[TweetyBird]

None of it 'in the church':
1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;

1 Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than you all:

1 Co 14:15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding.

That is in the assembly, per Paul. He is speaking to the whole, the body of the Corinthian church - when they gather together. The book is dedicated to teaching what goes on in the assembly. Tongues are not for private use. Not anywhere in the NT.

 

[TweetyBird]

It is edifying for him, though, which is supposed to be.

It's SELFISH. Paul corrected the Corinthians because they were wrong.

BTW: It is not I who say 'dispensation/administration' of grace but Paul (Ephesians 3:2)

The dispensation of grace that Paul is speaking of has nothing to do with the gifts of the Spirit. He is speaking of salvation, the forgiveness of sins through Christ Jesus to Jew and Gentile. Read the context. Then read Heb 8,9 to understand what changed - no more animals had to be slain for sin.

Eph 3
For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 if ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 how that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7 whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 and to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 to the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 according to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: 12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.