Sozo, Prove It.

[Delmar]

Like I said, the once saved always saved argument.

Yes, I know. You will be repeating that argument over and over again as you shake your fist at God from your permanent residence in Hell !

 

[godrulz]

I've heard biblical arguments that the age of accountability is 20 and something about how any conversions made prior to accountability are not concrete. (I doubt I worded it very good, but hopefully you get the idea.)

This was brought up on Enyart's show, was it not? It is an indefensible proposition and not held by credible scholars.

 

[Sozo]

Always a loop hole. But any way, if it was true why isnt it widely taught and preached. I've only ever heard of it once before. But either way, its not whats taught. And thats what counts.

I'm willing to ignore anything that might say a 10 year old cannot be saved. I believed I was saved from the moment I ever heard the name of Jesus, so we will put aside any accountability age, if that will help you to address my questions.

 

[Lucky]

Always a loop hole. But any way, if it was true why isnt it widely taught and preached. I've only ever heard of it once before. But either way, its not whats taught. And thats what counts.

It's the truth that counts. I'm not saying I am convinced yet, but it's something worth studying.

This was brought up on Enyart's show, was it not? It is an indefensible proposition and not held by credible scholars.

I'm sure it's been talked about on BEL, but I don't think Enyart himself promotes it.

 

[godrulz]

For the record, I would not nit pick at most of sozo's views on salvation. However, I think his wrong assumptions on some points lead to wrong conclusions.

I do not know if paulpeterson was genuinely saved or not when he was young (I received Christ when I was 12, but lived far from Him until I was 18. His conviction led to radical transformation, and I was born again again in a sense. I think I would not have gone to heaven when I was 17).

I do not believe in unconditional eternal security. I believe in conditional, biblical, eternal security: a believer is secure, but this does not preclude the possibility of falling away or apostasizing, forfeiting a relationship with God and the promise of life. I think sozo reduces salvation to the possession of life and divorces it from the need to continue in right relationship with the person of Christ. I John says that life is in the Son, not inherent in us. If someone rejects the Son, whether they once believed or not, they are no longer walking in life, but have returned to death and darkness.

paulpeterson is not a believer now. He may or may not have been as a child (quite possibly he had mere head knowledge and never was 'born again'). OSAS is simply not biblical. He is another one of many who illustrates the stern warnings in Scripture about the possibility of apostasy and the need to persevere.

Heb. 10:35 ff. "So do not throw away your confidence (possible to do so); it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God (love and trust Him and continue to do so), you will receive what He has promised (abundant and eternal life)....but we (those who continue to believe vs fall away due to persecution or temptation) are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed (some did), but of those who believe (and continue to believe...Greek present, continuous, habitual tense) and are saved (believers are glorified in the end...unbelievers are condemned, whether they once believed or not).

 

[Sozo]

Here we go...

ATTENTION EVERYONE​

If you want to truly know where godrulz's interests lie, it is not in the eternal soul of Paul, but in his ability to jump in and promote his false doctrine at every opportunity.

What a pathetic piece of ureX: you are, godrulz!

You are worse than any agnostic/atheist could ever hope to be. Care to buy a millstone?

 

[godrulz]

Here we go...

ATTENTION EVERYONE​

If you want to truly know where godrul's interests lie, it is not in the eternal soul of Paul, but in his abilty to jump in and promote his false doctrine at every opportunity.

What a pathetic piece of ureX: you are, godrulz!

You are worse than any agnostic/atheist could ever hope to be. Care to by a millstone?

Are you serious? I do not even know the dude. Read my last post. It is taking away his false assurance. The OSAS people like you conceivably must say that he is still a heaven bound saint despite his rebellious heart. I am speaking truth, while you might speak lies. The loophole will be to say that he could not have been saved to retain your preconceived theology. This is the point of the thread. Could he theoretically have been saved or not? I contend that he may or may not have been. You either must say that he was and still is or that he never was. Who is teaching false ideas? (cf. Zakath, Judas, Charles Templeton, etc.). If the dude comes back to the faith in the near future, you will be forced to admit that he was saved all along, despite being in a state of UNBELIEF. This is nonsense. If he dies in the next minute, he will not go to heaven just because he professed faith years ago.

My interest is in his soul, so I will speak the truth in love. I will not give him false assurance that he is still saved just because he once claimed to be. I will call him to repentant faith and urge him to continue in the faith in the power of the Spirit. I will preach Christ and Him crucified, risen from the dead and salvation by grace through faith alone, apart from works or self-righteousness.

I am disappointed at your personal attacks. It is a reflection on you, not my convictions or beliefs that you misunderstand and misrepresent. I am on your side with the Gospel. They, not me, are in enemy camp.

 

[Sozo]

Are you serious?

Some people might say that.

They, not me, are in enemy camp.

I strongly disagree. I think you are God's enemy, my enemy, and their enemy.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Here we go...

ATTENTION EVERYONE​

If you want to truly know where godrulz's interests lie, it is not in the eternal soul of Paul, but in his ability to jump in and promote his false doctrine at every opportunity.

What a pathetic piece of ureX: you are, godrulz!

You are worse than any agnostic/atheist could ever hope to be. Care to buy a millstone?

Sozo...

You need a three day break. :wave2:

You win arguments with truth but you kill the cause with lack of self control.

 

[godrulz]

Some people might say that.I strongly disagree. I think you are God's enemy, my enemy, and their enemy.

I value the witness of the Spirit and Word more than your delusions. :wave2:

 

[godrulz]

Sozo...

You need a three day break. :wave2:

You win arguments with truth but you kill the cause with lack of self control.

Knight to the rescue. Who will we spar with now? Sometimes more heat than light is fun. We respect your authority, but it will mean a boring weekend. If I ever get out of line, I trust you will give me warnings before :banned:

 

[Lighthouse]

I value the witness of the Spirit and Word more than your delusions. :wave2:

You don't even know the witness of the Spirit or the Word.