I guess Paul referred to Jesus as God come in the flesh after Jesus returned to heaven following His crucifixion. Jesus was born of a virgin as the Son of man, but He now lives as God, Ruler of heaven and earth.
"Son of Man"
- Thread starter Bradley D
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You continue to blind yourself to the issue.
Was Jesus wrong to call Himself the Son of man?
Jesus will return to establish His kingdom on the earth and will fulfill His role as the SON OF MAN. That kingdom will be called ISRAEL.
Jesus is the Son of man, the only begotten of the Father, born of a virgin. But He is also King of Kings and Lord of Lords and will rule over all of creation in His thousand year reign.
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Yes, He is.
So?
There are so many myopic Christians such as yourself. You have a little bit of Bible knowledge but are unwilling to see the truth of the bigger picture.
What do you think that this passage means?
The "throne of His Father David" is the throne of Israel.
The "house of Jacob" is Israel.
Greetings again Right Divider,
Hebrews 2:6-12 (KJV): 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lowerc than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Psalm 80:17 (KJV): Let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand, upon the son of man whom thou madest strong for thyself.
It does not depend on to whom the Letter is written, Jesus IS “The Son of Man” who fulfils both Psalm 8:4 and Psalm 80:17. Psalm 8 is also quoted by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:21-28.
Kind regards
Trevor
The Letter to the Hebrews possibly is written by Paul, but the following is where the title “Son of Man” appears, and considered together with Psalm 80:17, both are talking about Jesus, his humanity, and his being strengthened by God to achieve salvation.
Hebrews 2:6-12 (KJV): 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lowerc than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Psalm 80:17 (KJV): Let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand, upon the son of man whom thou madest strong for thyself.
It does not depend on to whom the Letter is written, Jesus IS “The Son of Man” who fulfils both Psalm 8:4 and Psalm 80:17. Psalm 8 is also quoted by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:21-28.
Kind regards
Trevor
We know it wasn't written by Paul.
Of course it matters who it's written to.
If you're reading someone else's mail, and respond to it as if it were addressed to you, you're gonna have serious problems in your life.
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We do not know who wrote the book to the HEBREWS, but it was extremely unlikely to be Paul.
https://theologyonline.com/threads/paul-did-not-write-hebrews-we-do-not-know-who-did.52480/
Every book in the Bible has a target audience (just like every piece of written literature does) and in the case of the book to the HEBREWS.... it's HEBREWS.
Paul never calls Jesus the Son of man.
Of course Jesus is going to reign over Israel.
OZOS
Well-known member
It's not a point of contention for me, but I personally lean strongly towards co-authorship of Luke and Paul. Luke being the one who wrote it, as he did Acts, and Paul providing the doctrine.
Greetings JudgeRightly and Greetings again Right Divider,
Kind regards
Trevor
I am of the persuasion that it was Paul.
The Letter to the Hebrews was specifically written to the Hebrew Christians who were in danger of sliding back into Judaism as the events of AD 70 started to develop, and the exhortation to go outside the camp is very relevant to these Hebrews, showing that they needed to fully espouse the teachings of Jesus and forsake their Jewish heritage. The lessons in this book are beneficial to ALL the believers.
An argument from silence is not very strong. Your claim that Paul and Jesus taught different Gospels seem very shallow, and the idea that Jesus and the Apostles will be upon the earth for the 1000 years while Paul and his Gentile converts will be in heaven is ludicrous and not worth discussing.
Kind regards
Trevor
OZOS
Well-known member
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The doctrine in the book to the Hebrews is different from the doctrine in rest of Paul's epistles. Therefore, I disagree.
OZOS
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Which doctrine is different?
Right Divider
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The book of Hebrews is consistent with what you find in Jesus' earthly ministry to Israel. It is also consistent with what you find in the Hebrew epistles (Peter's, John's, Jude, Revelation). That is different than what you find in Paul's epistles.
For example: The book of Hebrews refers to priest or priests 34 times; Paul's epistles -- ZERO.
OZOS
Well-known member
How so?
How so?
Paul is comparing the priesthood under the Law, which is inferior, to the Priesthood of Christ.
The writer of Hebrews is appealing to the Jews to abandon all that they had received under the Law, for Christ, who is far better. As you know, they have a different history, than those letters written to the Gentiles. And Paul claims to have spoken to Jews, as one under the Law...
"For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more; and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law"
Peter even mentions that Paul wrote to them...
"Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures."
Right Divider
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Paul did not write the book TO THE HEBREWS. Paul is the apostle of the gentiles. Roman 11:13
1Ti 2:7 KJV Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie nota teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
2Ti 1:11 KJV Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
You are making gross assumptions.
OZOS
Well-known member
I disagree
Yes, he is, and he also spoke to and wrote to Hebrews. The Bible says so.
"When Silas and Timothy had come from Macedonia, Paul was compelled by the Spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus is the Christ."
Quoting God's word is not an "assumption", but rejecting His word is a path to false teaching.
Do you deny that Peter's letter is written to Jews (Hebrews)?
Do you deny that Peter said that Paul wrote to Jews (Hebrews)?
Do you deny that Paul spoke in the synagogues to Jews (Hebrews)?
Do you deny that there were Jews who believed Paul's gospel?
Do you deny that the letter to the Hebrews claims that Jesus died for our sins, was buried, and rose from the dead?
And then there is this... "Know that our brother Timothy has been set free, with whom I shall see you if he comes shortly."
Timothy was Paul's companion and Timothy's mentor.
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Go ahead.
When Paul "testified to the Jews", he was talking to them face to fact. In Paul's EPISTLES he was not writing directly to Jews or Hebrews.
Well, since I don't reject His word... I'm just fine.
And, of course, there is only one Timothy that ever lived on earth.
Go look at EVERY epistle that Paul wrote... they ALL start with the word PAUL. Hebrews does NOT.
OZOS
Well-known member
Completely irrelevant. Paul's other letters were to Gentiles. This letter was to Jews.
You ignored these questions...
- Do you deny that Peter's letters are written to Jews (Hebrews)?
- Do you deny that Peter said that Paul wrote to Jews (Hebrews)?
- Do you deny that Paul spoke in the synagogues to Jews (Hebrews)?
- Do you deny that there were Jews who believed Paul's gospel?
"Now it happened in Iconium that they went together to the synagogue of the Jews, and so spoke that a great multitude both of the Jews and of the Greeks believed." Acts 14:1
"Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and demonstrating that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus whom I preach to you is the Christ.” And some of them were persuaded; and a great multitude of the devout Greeks, and not a few of the leading women, joined Paul and Silas." Acts17:1-4
"Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. Therefore many of them believed, and also not a few of the Greeks, prominent women as well as men." Acts 17:10-12
"And he (Paul) reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks." Acts 18:4
"Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his household." Acts 18:8
Do you deny that the letter to the Hebrews claims that Jesus died for our sins, was buried, and rose from the dead?
Timothy was both a brother that was half Jew and a believer in Jesus. Philemon and Philippians were addressed from Paul and Timothy, while in prison. It's the same Timothy.
The author of Hebrews is preaching Jesus as the Christ for a "heavenly calling".
"Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus" Heb 3:1
Irrelevant. Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles, yet, as clearly proven to you, Paul reached out by letter to the Jews. And, this letter was most likely written by Luke, accompanied by Paul concerning who Jesus is and what He has done. Luke does not preface Acts, or his gospel, by mentioning his own name either.
My responses provide ample evidence, while yours are nothing more than stomping your feet in protest.
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Paul did not write the book to the Hebrews no matter how much you stomp your feet in protest.