Zeke
Well-known member
Mascots need luv to, keep up the good work GM your place is secure.
sin/sins is not the issue today!
- Thread starter heir
- Start date
Mascots need luv to, keep up the good work GM your place is secure.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Since you cannot even understand what the Bible says it is obvious that you are not able divide the Bible correctly.
Why should anyone believe anything which you say since you teach that the Jews who lived under the law couod not be saved apart from works despite the Lord Jesus'words spoken to them here?:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).
I see no proof that you can even understand what the Lord Jesus said there. In fact, your continued denial of what He said leaves me no other option but to think that you are unable to come to the knowledge of that truth.
That is why you refuse to give an interpretation of the meaning of His words.
As I said in another thread, "I enjoy your "Twilight Zone" way of
thinking. Any moment I expect Rod Serling to crash through my
Laptop screen."
One mans opinion (your opinion) is another mans rubbish. (my opinion of your opinion)
The problem is Jerry S.. is, that I don't respect your opinions. No
offence intended. It's just, you don't realize that your conclusions
are way off. In fact, about five thousand Light years away from
our known Universe!
offence intended. It's just, you don't realize that your conclusions
are way off. In fact, about five thousand Light years away from
our known Universe!
You're a man who "BELIEVES" his own "Self-created hype."
Posters like Heir and Glorydaz shine. However, posters like you, remain dull
and Intellectually lifeless.
and Intellectually lifeless.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
What is the Twilight Zone is your refusal to even attempt to give an interpretation of the meaning of John 5:24 while you continue to insist that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works.
Why do you continue to run and hide from what the Lord Jesus said here?:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).
I can only conclude that you enjoy embarrassing yourself.
Your inability to understand the Lord Jesus' words at John 5:24 proves that your spiritual I.Q. is practically nonexistent.
Want to go back and forth trading insults? You won't won't be able
to compete. Or, do you want to have an intelligent discussion? It's
up to you? I'm up for either one.
John 5:24 states: “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word
and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come
into judgment, but has passed from death into life."
First of all, John 5:24 was written to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.
We MUST keep that in mind. It's a generalized statement from our Lord
and Savior Jesus Christ. However, the Jews were still under the Law when
Christ spoke those words. Even after Christ died and was resurrected, the
Jews still had their works plus faith in Christ.
When Christ gives the Message of God's Grace Message to Paul, Paul is
sent to the Gentiles with a message of, faith without works. The Gentiles
were never under the Law. The Jews were God's Chosen. The Message
that Peter preached to the Jews, after Christ died and resurrected, was
the "Kingdom Message" which included works plus faith in Christ.
The Gentiles, through Paul, received the "Grace Message" which is, faith
without works.
and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come
into judgment, but has passed from death into life."
First of all, John 5:24 was written to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.
We MUST keep that in mind. It's a generalized statement from our Lord
and Savior Jesus Christ. However, the Jews were still under the Law when
Christ spoke those words. Even after Christ died and was resurrected, the
Jews still had their works plus faith in Christ.
When Christ gives the Message of God's Grace Message to Paul, Paul is
sent to the Gentiles with a message of, faith without works. The Gentiles
were never under the Law. The Jews were God's Chosen. The Message
that Peter preached to the Jews, after Christ died and resurrected, was
the "Kingdom Message" which included works plus faith in Christ.
The Gentiles, through Paul, received the "Grace Message" which is, faith
without works.
Today, both Jew and Gentile alike are under the "Grace Message." (Paul's
Gospel)
Gospel)
We're now living in what Paul calls, The Dispensation of Grace." God's
forgiveness, mercy, and eternal life are a free gift to those who place
ALL of their faith in Christ as their Savior. They (we) hear the message
of our salvation, place our faith in Christ, are indwelt and sealed by the
Holy Spirit, and baptized (not by water) into the Body of Christ by the
Holy Spirit. We cannot lose that position in Christ.
forgiveness, mercy, and eternal life are a free gift to those who place
ALL of their faith in Christ as their Savior. They (we) hear the message
of our salvation, place our faith in Christ, are indwelt and sealed by the
Holy Spirit, and baptized (not by water) into the Body of Christ by the
Holy Spirit. We cannot lose that position in Christ.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
If the Jews had to believe and do works to be saved then why would the Lord Jesus tell them that it only took believing to be saved?:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).
And why would He say that it is His words that bring life if His words alone were not enough to bring life?:
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).
Will you answer that?
Prove that you can answer my questions in an "intelligent" manner.
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Don't confuse the Spirit with the flesh. The House of Israel were
under the Law. Even if they placed their faith in Christ, their flesh
was still under the Law. And, they still had to abide by their works.
We're only talking about "The House of Israel" (The Chosen people
of God) here. Christ sometimes makes generalized statements that
include ALL of mankind. (including Gentiles in the near and far away
future.) So, even though members of the House of Israel would
place their faith in Him (previous to His death and resurrection and
after His resurrection) They were still expected to provide works as
well as faith.
Paul preaches The Grace Message to the Gentiles. They were never
under the Law and never had to provide any works. Why? Because
they were not God's "Chosen." Henceforth, at that time, The House
of Israel had to place their faith in Christ and provide works as well.
Today, only "Paul's Gospel" exists for both, The House of Israel and
the Gentiles. Both are included in this "Grace Message."
The Law was created for the flesh, to bring the body into obedience to
the one true God of Israel. We as Gentiles who believe in Christ as our
Savior; the Holy Spirit within us teaches us what the will of God is.
The written Law is already established in the Chosen people of Israel.
The Gentiles however, were never given the Law. Christ fulfilled the Law
for both the House of Israel and the Gentiles. The revelation of the Law
is revealed by the Holy Spirit to the Gentiles.
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Intelligent manner is "subjective" on TOL.
Jesus never referred to himself as divine. There were a couple of references to Jesus making a comment that he was a "prophet," and a few instances where he called himself "Son of Man."
But that phrase--also sometimes translated as "Son of Adam"--simply means HUMAN BEING.
http://www.amazon.com/Human-Being-J...6&sr=1-1&keywords=walter+wink+the+human+being
Shasta
Well-known member
How many sermons of Peter do we actually have? I counted five in the book of Acts and, out of those, only one (Acts 2:38) exhorts people to be Baptized. If it was essential to Peter's "Jewish gospel of salvation" you would think, that it would have been mentioned EVERY time he preached.
I do not think Peter believed in Baptismal regeneration just like I do not think evangelists who preach the gospel and then ask people to respond by coming forward and praying are saying that one must "go to the altar" to be saved. Still Peter evidently believed Baptism was to be a part of the salvation experience. It was a response of a person whose conscience had come under conviction through hearing the gospel. Besides that the response of a conscience to the Holy Spirit is not the same as a meritorious good work which cannot either with or without faith save anyone.
Peter could not have believed Baptism was absolutely necessary for salvation, however, since he had seen the Gentiles filled with the Spirit before baptism. Being filled with the Spirit was the sign that they had entered the New Covenant about which the prophet had said "I will put my Spirit in them" (Ezekiel 36:27). When the Jews heard of the Holy Spirit falling on the Gentiles they believed that they had received eternal life just as they had (Acts 11:18)
Having been a disciple of John the Baptist Peter would have seen Baptism morally rather than ceremonially, as a sign of true repentance and a pledge of surrender of the person's life to God. Peter definitely believed that Baptism was part of the salvation experience as it should be.
And this prefigured baptism, which now saves you--not the washing off of physical dirt but the pledge of a good conscience to God--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (1 Peter 3:21)
Paul also gives great significance to Baptism and although he did not always carry it out himself, evidently those in his team did.
2...How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life
Is Paul saying the rite of Baptism is what puts to death the Old Nature. I do not think so. Like, Peter he speaks of the spiritual reality underlying the physical action.
At any rate I do not see Peter or Paul constantly preaching Baptism even though many people were Baptized through their ministries. At the very least, the mention of one scripture is not enough to establish that it was especially a part of any "Jewish Gospel"
Jesus IS, God the Son. Believe it or reject it. You'll have a rude
awakening if you end up standing before God the Father and
being judged by your works? If you wind up standing before,
God the Son that will mean you placed your faith correctly.
Shasta
Well-known member
As I was reading the First letter of Peter I happened to notice this scripture:
23 since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God; 24 for
“All flesh is like grass
and all its glory like the flower of grass.
The grass withers,
and the flower falls,
25 but the word of the Lord remains forever.”
And this word is the good news that was preached to you.
Peter, quoting the OT says the "good news" or Gospel he preached "abides (remains, lasts) FOREVER."
In other words, there is no expiration date on it but according to MAD the expiration date on the "Jewish Gospel" (which Peter supposedly preached) ran out sometime in the first half of the First Century. Either this scripture taken from the OT is wrong, or it is right and MAD is wrong
23 since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God; 24 for
“All flesh is like grass
and all its glory like the flower of grass.
The grass withers,
and the flower falls,
25 but the word of the Lord remains forever.”
And this word is the good news that was preached to you.
Peter, quoting the OT says the "good news" or Gospel he preached "abides (remains, lasts) FOREVER."
In other words, there is no expiration date on it but according to MAD the expiration date on the "Jewish Gospel" (which Peter supposedly preached) ran out sometime in the first half of the First Century. Either this scripture taken from the OT is wrong, or it is right and MAD is wrong