ECT Sell all you have

Tambora

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Sell all you have

Was this to be done in accordance with the law concerning the selling of property?

The law says that the Israelites were not to sell the land, permanently. - Lev 25:23.
In other words, any sell would only be temporary, akin to leasing rather than an outright sell.
Because any sell would include the clause of the kinsman redeemer (ie. the seller or any of his kinsmen could pay the sell/lease terms, thus fulfilling the sale/lease contract, in which would return to the possession of the seller's family); not to mention the clause of the Jubilee year, in which the land returns to the original Israelite owner that sold/leased.

But could they sell/lease (with those legal clauses) to anyone? Or could it only be sold/leased to other Israelites?
After all, the law was to apply even to the 'strangers' in the land. - Lev 19:24.
 

God's Truth

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God in the flesh was in front of the rich man. What an amazing happening, like no other ever. The rich man did not want to give up his wealth and follow Jesus, God who was right there in front of him. He did not want to join Jesus’ earthly ministry. We are not all told to leave our homes and give everything away to become traveling ministers. That is nonsense taught by people with no understanding.
Can you imagine Paul preaching to the church of the Ephesians, Galatians, and Corinthians that they had to give away everything they owned and become traveling disciples? There would not be churches in the New Testament for Paul to write too! For the houses of the believers were the churches. No one would be there for Paul to write too and visit, for they would all be gone doing traveling ministries.
Jesus knows everyone’s heart and knew the rich man thought more of his earthly riches than God’s Truth.
Jesus said his teachings are not burdensome, but I am sorry to say you who believe Jesus wants everyone to give away their home and money have made Jesus’ teachings burdensome.
It is not a sin to have money and material possessions. Paul explains that parents save up for their children. How do people save up for their children if they have nothing? Not only that, there are scripture for those who are wealthy in this world, and it is not to give it all away.
1 Timothy 6:17 Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment.
18 Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share.
2 Corinthians 12:14 Now I am ready to visit you for the third time, and I will not be a burden to you, because what I want is not your possessions but you. After all, children should not have to save up for their parents, but parents for their children.



Paul had guidelines for whom Christians were to help. Even a widow had to meet certain guidelines before she would be helped.

1 Timothy 5:9 No widow may be put on the list of widows unless she is over sixty, has been faithful to her husband,

1 Timothy 5:16
If any woman who is a believer has widows in her care, she should continue to help them and not let the church be burdened with them, so that the church can help those widows who are really in need.

1 Timothy 5:4 But if a widow has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their religion into practice by caring for their own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God.



How is the Christians wife keeping busy in her house if her house was sold and given to the poor?

Titus 2:5 to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.
 

HisServant

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The early churches shared everything among one another and gave thanks... so they basically did give everything away.

They didn't care because they were told Jesus return was imminent.

But once again, you are cherry picking and missing the big picture.

I think you are more suited for Buddhism than Christianity.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
Sell all you have

Was this to be done in accordance with the law concerning the selling of property?

The law says that the Israelites were not to sell the land, permanently. - Lev 25:23.
In other words, any sell would only be temporary, akin to leasing rather than an outright sell.
Because any sell would include the clause of the kinsman redeemer (ie. the seller or any of his kinsmen could pay the sell/lease terms, thus fulfilling the sale/lease contract, in which would return to the possession of the seller's family); not to mention the clause of the Jubilee year, in which the land returns to the original Israelite owner that sold/leased.

But could they sell/lease (with those legal clauses) to anyone? Or could it only be sold/leased to other Israelites?
After all, the law was to apply even to the 'strangers' in the land. - Lev 19:24.
You are assuming that the rich man had land outside the city to sell.

There is no law against permantly selling a house in a walled city (like Jerusalem).

Leviticus 25:29-30
29 And if a man sell a dwelling house in a walled city, then he may redeem it within a whole year after it is sold; within a full year may he redeem it.
30 And if it be not redeemed within the space of a full year, then the house that is in the walled city shall be established for ever to him that bought it throughout his generations: it shall not go out in the jubile.​

 

God's Truth

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The early churches shared everything among one another and gave thanks... so they basically did give everything away.

They didn't care because they were told Jesus return was imminent.

But once again, you are cherry picking and missing the big picture.

I think you are more suited for Buddhism than Christianity.

As for Acts 2:45 They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need.

The people were not commanded to do this, they wanted to do this.

Read this, it is during the same time:


Ananias and Sapphira

Acts 5:5 Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2 With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet.

3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”


Peter says that the LAND BELONGED TO HIM TO DO WITH IT WHAT HE WANTED. Then, after the LAND was sold---the MONEY from the land was HIS TO DO WHAT HE WANTED WITH IT.

Ananias' sin is not that he kept money, but that he LIED about it.



Jesus does not want the whole world to be homeless. He was speaking to those who would be traveling ministers with him.
 

Tambora

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You are assuming that the rich man had land outside the city to sell.
Sorry, but I haven't assumed one way or the other, because scripture does not say one way or the other where "all he has" is. He was just asked to sell all he had.
And, we are not told that the rich man ended up selling anything at all. So he would not fit into the category of folks that sold their property.
We could only include him in this question IF he wanted to sell.
(IF he wanted to sell, would he have to do so according to the law?)


I am asking if the folks mentioned in the NT (that did sell) were under the law, and therefore required to do their selling of property according to the law.
I ask because there seems to be no instances mentioned of any of the Gentile congregations doing so.


There is no law against permantly selling a house in a walled city (like Jerusalem).

Leviticus 25:29-30
29 And if a man sell a dwelling house in a walled city, then he may redeem it within a whole year after it is sold; within a full year may he redeem it.
30 And if it be not redeemed within the space of a full year, then the house that is in the walled city shall be established for ever to him that bought it throughout his generations: it shall not go out in the jubile.​

Yes, thanks for adding that exception ro the conversation. :up:
And I can think of tons of questions to ask about those houses in walled cities!
Such as:
Were city lands 'donated' from the ancestral owner of said land?
Or did everyone have to purchase a lot from the ancestral owner to build their house on?
What happens to city lots that are abandoned? Who is responsible for the abandoned lots?
etc.

I haven't really looked into how the folks of that time period ran a city.
Now, it has my curiosity up!

I can see how the selling of city lots would have a different motive than selling off ancestral land.

This is all going a bit off topic.
But, you know, it happens!
:)
 
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genuineoriginal

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Sorry, but I haven't assumed one way or the other, because scripture does not say one way or the other where "all he has" is.

And, we are not told that the rich man ended up selling anything at all. So he would not fit into the category of folks that sold their property.

I am asking if the folks mentioned in the NT (that did sell) were under the law, and therefore required to do their selling of property according to the law.

You referenced two passages in scripture to see if the one passage was bound by the second passage: Luke 18:22 (sell all you have) and Leviticus 25:23.

I assumed you wanted an answer based on those scriptures.

If you are asking whether the Jews in Israel at the time of Jesus kept the Jubilee year, then the answer is no.
They were in violation of the law of the Jubilee year according to historical records and never released captives nor returned property.
 

aikido7

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Sell all you have

Was this to be done in accordance with the law concerning the selling of property?

The law says that the Israelites were not to sell the land, permanently. - Lev 25:23.
In other words, any sell would only be temporary, akin to leasing rather than an outright sell.
Because any sell would include the clause of the kinsman redeemer (ie. the seller or any of his kinsmen could pay the sell/lease terms, thus fulfilling the sale/lease contract, in which would return to the possession of the seller's family); not to mention the clause of the Jubilee year, in which the land returns to the original Israelite owner that sold/leased.

But could they sell/lease (with those legal clauses) to anyone? Or could it only be sold/leased to other Israelites?
After all, the law was to apply even to the 'strangers' in the land. - Lev 19:24.
This is the heart of the Bible--and the gospel as well.

The Jews were all too aware of a system of injustice and violence and what it can do to a people. They did their best to "build in" the structures that would favor compassion for the widow, the orphan, the stranger, the immigrant, the landless and the destitute.

This is what Jesus' message was all about--but beware bringing it up in the polite company of today's Christians.

Meshak's experience comes to mind. Not only will your beliefs be strenuously condemned but people on this site will make fun of your hat.
 

Lazy afternoon

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As for Acts 2:45

The people were not commanded to do this, they wanted to do this.


Ananias' sin is not that he kept money, but that he LIED about it.


They lied to the Holy Spirit, which means the Lord was speaking to them about selling up.

Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?


Jesus does not want the whole world to be homeless. He was speaking to those who would be traveling ministers with him.

Jesus speaks to every one of His to do what He desires they do.

One can not make any rule about what He may say in the future, except that He may say again what He has said in the past.

LA
 

Tambora

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You referenced two passages in scripture to see if the one passage was bound by the second passage: Luke 18:22 (sell all you have) and Leviticus 25:23.

I assumed you wanted an answer based on those scriptures.
Was the rich man under the law?


If you are asking whether the Jews in Israel at the time of Jesus kept the Jubilee year, then the answer is no.
They were in violation of the law of the Jubilee year according to historical records and never released captives nor returned property.
I'm asking if they were under the law.
 

God's Truth

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They lied to the Holy Spirit, which means the Lord was speaking to them about selling up.

Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

The scripture plainly says that it WAS HIS MONEY TO DO WITH WHAT HE WANTED.

It was NOT about keeping the money. It was about lying about the money.

Acts 5:3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”
 

oatmeal

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I find it useful to read the passage that a contains the verses in question.

Luke 18:18-30

18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.

22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.

24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

26 And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?

27 And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

28 Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee.

29 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake,

30 Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

Until a man is ready to leave his past, he will continue to live in his past.

If you want to follow the leadership of the lord Jesus Christ, you have to learn to travel light.

No one can be on the move like Jesus Christ was while being burdened by the cares of this world, by the riches of this world.

Matthew 13:

And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;

4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:

8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

You cannot serve God and mammon.

The young ruler needed to unload all those things that would choke the word out of his life.

Yet we read of Joseph of Arimathea who was a wealthy man and a disciple of Jesus Christ.

Joseph could handle his wealth and be a disciple at the same time. He had learned to put God first in his life and was blessed for it.

The young ruler kept the ten commandments, but the law contains hundreds of other laws that needed keeping as well.

The young ruler needed to learn to focus on the things of God without distraction.

People who climb mountains do not take anything more than what is necessary, they do not take laptops, TV's , microwave ovens with them.

If you want to reach reach you high places, you must learn to leave behind those things that impede and distract you from your goal.

2 Samuel 22:34 He maketh my feet like hinds' feet: and setteth me upon my high places.

A hind, a deer, does not carry a suit case or a tv or a laptop with it.

It has nothing but itself and a goal
 

turbosixx

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Sell all you have

Was this to be done in accordance with the law concerning the selling of property?

The law says that the Israelites were not to sell the land, permanently. - Lev 25:23.
In other words, any sell would only be temporary, akin to leasing rather than an outright sell.
Because any sell would include the clause of the kinsman redeemer (ie. the seller or any of his kinsmen could pay the sell/lease terms, thus fulfilling the sale/lease contract, in which would return to the possession of the seller's family); not to mention the clause of the Jubilee year, in which the land returns to the original Israelite owner that sold/leased.

But could they sell/lease (with those legal clauses) to anyone? Or could it only be sold/leased to other Israelites?
After all, the law was to apply even to the 'strangers' in the land. - Lev 19:24.

My understanding is that the rich man felt like he was giving his all to God, but Jesus knew what he valued more than the approval of God. Jesus knowing his heart told him to sell all, the rich man then understood that God was not what he valued most.
 

Tambora

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My understanding is that the rich man felt like he was giving his all to God, but Jesus knew what he valued more than the approval of God. Jesus knowing his heart told him to sell all, the rich man then understood that God was not what he valued most.
Okey dokey.
We know the rich man didn't sell. There is no dispute about that.

But if he had decided to sell, wouldn't he be obligated to do any selling of property according to the law?
 

God's Truth

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Can the law save them?

The law used to save them.

God was with them and walked among them. He was in the tent, and later the temple, because they followed the law and did the ceremonial works. The Jews could not even go to the temple to worship God, where His Spirit was, unless they were ceremonially clean.

Romans 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
 

God's Truth

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Nope.

Galatians 3 KJV
(21) Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

That does not mean God was not among those who obeyed. You cannot nullify scripture with scripture.

Just like I said, the people had the law to obey and God would be among them.

Leviticus 26:12
I will walk among you and be your God, and you will be my people.

Exodus 19:5
Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine,

Jeremiah 7:23 but I gave them this command: Obey me, and I will be your God and you will be my people. Walk in obedience to all I command you, that it may go well with you.

Jeremiah 11:4
the terms I commanded your ancestors when I brought them out of Egypt, out of the iron-smelting furnace.' I said, 'Obey me and do everything I command you, and you will be my people, and I will be your God.
 

Lazy afternoon

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Nope.

Galatians 3 KJV
(21) Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Yes

The works of the law never saved anyone, but the believers were required to keep the law under the old covenant.

Faith was necessary under the OC as it is under the NC.

Believers could do the works of the law, yet because of their lack of faith they were not saved.

The lack of faith in the people resulted in their being blind to their evil hearts and everyday evil works which condemned them, even though they were most particular that they kept the law to the very letter.

Rom 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
Rom 4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Rom 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
Rom 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Rom 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
 
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