Satan, Inc (TOL's heretic's list)

[Choleric]

Yes, Jesus is the Son of God and certainly a way-shower,

Wrong. He is the Way. You have to be in Him to make it. He doesn't ask you to follow Him, He asks you to believe on Him and be in Him.

the avatar of love, yet your 'terms' are predicated upon a particular 'interpretation' of 'theology'

You just made that up. I did not interpret, I repeated. Jesus is the way. He did not blaze a trail. He is the trail.

in how this Jesus is the only way, and 'assumes' it is the only correct (orthodox) way to accept, according to certain definitions. What proof can you provide that your 'version' or 'interpretation' is the only valid, correct or absolute one to the exclusion of other points of view?

I have the bible, taken at face value, which you reject in favor of your imagination.

The Bible or I should say the NT is not the only record or accounting of the life and teachings of Jesus (not only did the compliers leave out many books about Jesus, but we've had other revelations since 2,000 years ago about Jesus and his teachings, and some have claimed even from Jesus himself thru various mediums).

The bible is the only reliable account. All else is conjecture and will end you up in error and ultimately a lake of fire.

I have no fear whatsoever based on the above assumption, because I Am quite grounded in the reality that actually exists, which we can call 'God', but is quite beyond any mental concept, yet all-pervading and all-sustaining nonetheless. Since this reality that always already exists.....is the only original truth that IS....it has no 'error', but only deviations and mental constructs the mind superimposes upon it. This pure awareness that gives rise to existence, consciousness, bliss (sat chit ananda) is the pure 'Brahman' from which all concepts of 'God/Goddess' spring.

You should fear, as it is the beginning of wisdom. You reject God's revelation of Himself and His Son, who is the fulness of the Godhead bodily. You reject truth "ever wanting to speak or hear some new thing". You are in love with the pursuit of spirituality and in turn, have rejected THE TRUTH, who is Jesus Christ.

I've amply considered the Master Jesus from many angles, schools and perspectives which illustriously honors and glorifies this wonderful personality. The traditional-orthodox 'presentation' or 'concept' of Jesus is by no means the 'only' one existing, neither necessarily a perfect one.

The biblical presentation of Jesus is the revelation of Jesus Christ by God the Father. Your ethereal spirituality is just a fancy rejection of the Jesus who died to save you. You love the praise of men more than the praise of God (John 12:41-43) and no doubt surround yourself with people who are "impressed" with your spirituality. You are no better than the infidel and the drunk.

The devil just uses a different tool to keep you from salvation. For some he uses vice, for you he uses the love of knowledge and your desire to hear knew things. The end result is the same. You are lost and on your way to a lake of fire.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

One Hundred Scriptural Arguments for the Unitarian Faith

Unitarian Christians believe Jesus Christ to be the Son of God and the Saviour of men. They believe in the divinity of his mission and in the divinity of his doctrines. They believe that the Gospel which he proclaimed came from God; that the knowledge it imparts, the morality it enjoins, the spirit it breathes, the acceptance it provides, the promises it makes, the prospects it exhibits, the rewards it proposes, the punishments it threatens, all proceed from the Great Jehovah. But they do not believe that Jesus Christ is the Supreme God. They believe that, though exalted far above all other created intelligences, he is a being distinct from, inferior to, and dependent upon, the Father Almighty. For this belief they urge, among other reasons, the following arguments from the Scriptures.

1. Because Jesus Christ is represented by the sacred writers to be as distinct a being from God the Father as one man is distinct from another. “It is written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one who bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me,” John 8:17, 18.

2. Because he not only never said that himself was God, but, on the contrary, spoke of the Father, who sent him, as God, and as the only God. “This is life eternal, that they might know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent,” John 17:3. This language our Saviour used in solemn prayer to “his Father and our Father.”

3. Because he is declared, in unnumbered instances, to be the Son of God. “And lo, a voice from heaven, saying, this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased,” Matt 3:17. Can a son be coeval and the same with his father?

4. Because he is styled the Christ, or the anointed of God. “God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power,” Acts 10:38. Is he who anoints the same with him who is anointed?

5. Because he is represented as a Priest. “Consider the ….High-Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus,” Heb. 3:1. The office of a priest is to minister to God. Christ, then, as a priest, cannot be God.

6. Because Christ is Mediator between the “One God,” and “men.” “For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,” 1 Tim. 2:5.

7. Because, as the Saviour of men, he was sent by the Father. “And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. 1 John 4:14.

8. Because he is an Apostle appointed by God. “Consider the Apostle,…Christ Jesus, who was faithful to him that appointed him,” Heb. 3:1, 2.

9. Because Christ is represented as our intercessor with God. “It is Christ that died, yea, rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us,” Rom. 8:34.

10. Because the head of Christ is God. “I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of every woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God,” 1 Cor. 11:3.

11. Because, in the same sense in which we are said to belong to Christ, Christ is said to belong to God. “And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s,” 1 Cor. 3:23.

12. Because Christ says, “My father is greater than all,” John 10:29. Is not the father, then greater than the son?

13. Because he affirms, in another connection, and without the least qualification, “My Father is greater than I,” John 14:28

14. Because he virtually denies that he is God, when he exclaims, “Why callest thou me Good? There is none good but one, that is God,” Matt 19:17.

15. Because our Saviour, after having said, “I and my Father are one,” gives his disciples distinctly to understand that he did not mean one substance, equal in power and glory, but one only in affection and design, &c; as clearly appears from the prayer he offers to his Father in their behalf, –“that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us,” John 17:21

16. Because the Father is called the God of Christ as he is the God of Christians. “Jesus saith unto her, ….Go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father; and to my God and your God,” John 20:17.


Read on.

http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/100-scriptural-arguments-for-the-unitarian-faith

 

[freelight]

truth bytes for you.......

truth bytes for you.......

Wrong. He is the Way. You have to be in Him to make it. He doesn't ask you to follow Him, He asks you to believe on Him and be in Him.

My former statement is still true. Read again.

You just made that up.

Hindus and others recognize Jesus as an 'avatar' of 'God',...it is not made up. We refer to Jesus as the 'Avatar of Love' because of his willingness to serve and sacrifice.

I did not interpret, I repeated. Jesus is the way. He did not blaze a trail. He is the trail.

It is an 'interpretation' among others. We can dissect John 14:6 if you like, which is unique to John's gospel and nomenclature, for Jesus who is embodying 'God' (his presence, love, power, Spirit, anointing, will, etc.)....is surely in his 'presentation' to them,....the WAY to 'God', since Jesus is that Son of God manifesting the true path (dharma/law/principle/wisdom/gnosis) to his disciples, and the 'reality' (truth) and 'life' (dynamic vitality) of the Spirit. He brought them into a true 'yoga' (union) with 'God', and taught them how to abide in that realm of communion (which is the 'kingdom of heaven'). Jesus remains as a way-shower. This is a truth. Claiming more puts the burden of proof upon the professor.

I have the bible, taken at face value, which you reject in favor of your imagination.

The question remains for you.

The bible is the only reliable account. All else is conjecture and will end you up in error and ultimately a lake of fire.

My statement and observations stand. You would have to prove the Bible is the only reliable account and that all non-canonical writings are mere 'conjecture'. This is your 'assumption' and chosen 'belief'. The scare tactic of being tossed into a 'lake of fire' is ridiculous.

You should fear, as it is the beginning of wisdom. You reject God's revelation of Himself and His Son, who is the fulness of the Godhead bodily. You reject truth "ever wanting to speak or hear some new thing". You are in love with the pursuit of spirituality and in turn, have rejected THE TRUTH, who is Jesus Christ.

I have nowhere rejected Jesus or 'the Christ'. Remember, the reality of 'God' is omnipresent, ever BEING. The very light, essence and consciousness of my own 'being'....IS....because of 'God', since 'God' is the source-substance of that light, essence and consciousness.

The biblical presentation of Jesus is the revelation of Jesus Christ by God the Father.

It is rather a presentation by various writers with their own interpretations and beliefs about Jesus.

Your ethereal spirituality is just a fancy rejection of the Jesus who died to save you.

God as Spirit is Life. I can enjoy this right now, because its real (actually being, present, in fullness!)

An appreciation and acceptance of Jesus does not require belief in a vicarious blood-atonement. Jesus gave his life as a demonstration of love, living a life of self-sacrifice and service. Atonement without blood is preferable to God...by living righteously. We covered this amply in my no longer extant thread 'Atonement without blood'.

You love the praise of men more than the praise of God (John 12:41-43) and no doubt surround yourself with people who are "impressed" with your spirituality.

I care not for the praise of men. It is valueless to me. I enjoy fellowship with others of my spiritual kin or those who recognize the same religious principles, truths and insights,....anchored in the 'perennial wisdom', recognizing the universality of Love and the gospel of Jesus which is grounded in the 'Fatherhood of God & Brotherhood of Man'. No need to 'impress' anyone,...but reflecting the 'light' of 'God' within with others who recognize that 'light' is a beautiful and inspiring thing.

You are no better than the infidel and the drunk.

Ouch.

The devil just uses a different tool to keep you from salvation.

That would be according to your concept of 'salvation', assuming one needs it.

For some he uses vice, for you he uses the love of knowledge and your desire to hear knew things.

Oh Choleric,...you must be a pretty sharp cookie to be privy to how the devil uses 'freelight' as an undercover 'gnostic' :crackup:

You are lost and on your way to a lake of fire.

I dont think so.

As far as the traditional concept of 'eternal conscious torment' (ECT) goes,...I've already addressed this 'belief' here.



pj

 

[MarkA]

...

 

[MarkA]

I stated…… !

Mark added…

that sounds very sad to me, not something I "couldn't wait" to see.
we shouldn't wait, we should do all we can to help him avoid that fate.

And Choleric had to add!


Then Lon feels the need to add….


You idiots… You know I’m a universalist … yet your so committed to following your platonic hell that does not exist in scripture! You attach your evil views to me!

The least you could do is know the views you post against!!! I don't follow Plato like you.... The soul is not immortal!!!

1Ti 6:16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

Alone possesses... means somthing here... idiots!! :think:

oly::sherlock:
Paul

I didn't say anything about immortality or hell, my comments were directed specifically at those who "can't wait" to see bad things happen to others.

if you are going to argue those things scriptural it would be best to use opponents quotes who are actually talking about those things.

wouldn't you agree God desires mercy not sacrifice? what is merciful about anticipating someones demise (even if that demise is not Biblical but real in the mind of the wisher) the sentiment would be the same.

Letargue did the same thing another thread, then tried to us OT verses of prophets that laughed with God at the calamity of their enemies (he wishes he was a prophet or thinks himself one apparently) he also apparently missed the NT and teachings of Messiah.....so much for a New Covenant, not like the old.

 

[Choleric]

My former statement is still true. Read again.

Read again, still not true.

Hindus and others recognize Jesus as an 'avatar' of 'God',...it is not made up. We refer to Jesus as the 'Avatar of Love' because of his willingness to serve and sacrifice.

And those Hindus and all others will burn forever in a lake of fire.

It is an 'interpretation' among others. We can dissect John 14:6 if you like, which is unique to John's gospel and nomenclature

,

And we see where the rubber meets the road. Like all heretics, the question is one of AUTHORITY. You talk about "interpretation" but what you are really doing is denying the authority of God's Holy preserved Word to guide your life. YOU want to do it YOUR way, like old Frankie Sinatra.

All heresy stems from the question of authority and you are your own authority.

for Jesus who is embodying 'God' (his presence, love, power, Spirit, anointing, will, etc.)....is surely in his 'presentation' to them,....the WAY to 'God', since Jesus is that Son of God manifesting the true path (dharma/law/principle/wisdom/gnosis) to his disciples, and the 'reality' (truth) and 'life' (dynamic vitality) of the Spirit. He brought them into a true 'yoga' (union) with 'God', and taught them how to abide in that realm of communion (which is the 'kingdom of heaven'). Jesus remains as a way-shower. This is a truth. Claiming more puts the burden of proof upon the professor.

Jesus said "I AM THE WAY". THere is no interpretation necessary. He is also the door. You can't get to the father but IN HIM, which is also all over the bible which you reject.

The question remains for you.

nonsense. I read and believe. You read and reject, dissect and "interpret" which is just your modus operandi for eliminating God as the Sovereign in your life.

My statement and observations stand. You would have to prove the Bible is the only reliable account and that all non-canonical writings are mere 'conjecture'. This is your 'assumption' and chosen 'belief'.

The bible has internal proofs of epic proportions, something no other religious document can even sniff at.

The scare tactic of being tossed into a 'lake of fire' is ridiculous.

Again, that is not a scare tactic. It is me, once again, employing the simple, childlike art of "reading and believing".

I have nowhere rejected Jesus or 'the Christ'. Remember, the reality of 'God' is omnipresent, ever BEING. The very light, essence and consciousness of my own 'being'....IS....because of 'God', since 'God' is the source-substance of that light, essence and consciousness.

You have rejected Jesus as the only WAY. And you will fail.

It is rather a presentation by various writers with their own interpretations and beliefs about Jesus.

Once again, the question of authority rears it's ugly head. You choose your own "ability, understanding" etc. You should choose God's Word.

God as Spirit is Life. I can enjoy this right now, because its real (actually being, present, in fullness!)

And whatever you think you have, it is not God.

An appreciation and acceptance of Jesus does not require belief in a vicarious blood-atonement. Jesus gave his life as a demonstration of love, living a life of self-sacrifice and service. Atonement without blood is preferable to God...by living righteously. We covered this amply in my no longer extant thread 'Atonement without blood'.

You cannot be saved without the Blood. This is again plainly written in the bible, which you reject for your opinion. You can't cover up evil with good. If you get arrested for speeding, you can't erase your guilt by no longer speeding. You cannot cover sin by ceasing to sin. You can stop adding to your guilt, but your guilt remains.

Ouch.

John 3:18, you are condemned already.

That would be according to your concept of 'salvation', assuming one needs it.

The bibles concept of salvation and the bibles assumption that everyone needs it. Again, it is a question of authority. You spend your time trying to find clever ways to dismiss God's authority in your life. You will reap what you sow.

Oh Choleric,...you must be a pretty sharp cookie to be privy to how the devil uses 'freelight' as an undercover 'gnostic' :crackup:

Just believing what He wrote.

I dont think so.

As far as the traditional concept of 'eternal conscious torment' (ECT) goes,...I've already addressed this 'belief' here.

pj

And again, the issue of authority comes up. It doesn't matter what you or I think. God is your judge and he is the executor of your punishment or reward. Without blood atonement and the new birth, you will spend eternity drowning in a lake of fire.

Please let God be your authority. Stop playing games with Him. It is not too late.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

One Hundred Scriptural Arguments for the Unitarian Faith

Unitarian Christians believe Jesus Christ to be the Son of God and the Saviour of men. They believe in the divinity of his mission and in the divinity of his doctrines. They believe that the Gospel which he proclaimed came from God; that the knowledge it imparts, the morality it enjoins, the spirit it breathes, the acceptance it provides, the promises it makes, the prospects it exhibits, the rewards it proposes, the punishments it threatens, all proceed from the Great Jehovah. But they do not believe that Jesus Christ is the Supreme God. They believe that, though exalted far above all other created intelligences, he is a being distinct from, inferior to, and dependent upon, the Father Almighty. For this belief they urge, among other reasons, the following arguments from the Scriptures.

1. Because Jesus Christ is represented by the sacred writers to be as distinct a being from God the Father as one man is distinct from another. “It is written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one who bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me,” John 8:17, 18.

2. Because he not only never said that himself was God, but, on the contrary, spoke of the Father, who sent him, as God, and as the only God. “This is life eternal, that they might know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent,” John 17:3. This language our Saviour used in solemn prayer to “his Father and our Father.”

3. Because he is declared, in unnumbered instances, to be the Son of God. “And lo, a voice from heaven, saying, this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased,” Matt 3:17. Can a son be coeval and the same with his father?

4. Because he is styled the Christ, or the anointed of God. “God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power,” Acts 10:38. Is he who anoints the same with him who is anointed?

5. Because he is represented as a Priest. “Consider the ….High-Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus,” Heb. 3:1. The office of a priest is to minister to God. Christ, then, as a priest, cannot be God.

6. Because Christ is Mediator between the “One God,” and “men.” “For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,” 1 Tim. 2:5.

7. Because, as the Saviour of men, he was sent by the Father. “And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. 1 John 4:14.

8. Because he is an Apostle appointed by God. “Consider the Apostle,…Christ Jesus, who was faithful to him that appointed him,” Heb. 3:1, 2.

9. Because Christ is represented as our intercessor with God. “It is Christ that died, yea, rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us,” Rom. 8:34.

10. Because the head of Christ is God. “I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of every woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God,” 1 Cor. 11:3.

11. Because, in the same sense in which we are said to belong to Christ, Christ is said to belong to God. “And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s,” 1 Cor. 3:23.

12. Because Christ says, “My father is greater than all,” John 10:29. Is not the father, then greater than the son?

13. Because he affirms, in another connection, and without the least qualification, “My Father is greater than I,” John 14:28

14. Because he virtually denies that he is God, when he exclaims, “Why callest thou me Good? There is none good but one, that is God,” Matt 19:17.

15. Because our Saviour, after having said, “I and my Father are one,” gives his disciples distinctly to understand that he did not mean one substance, equal in power and glory, but one only in affection and design, &c; as clearly appears from the prayer he offers to his Father in their behalf, –“that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us,” John 17:21

16. Because the Father is called the God of Christ as he is the God of Christians. “Jesus saith unto her, ….Go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father; and to my God and your God,” John 20:17.


Read on.

http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/100-scriptural-arguments-for-the-unitarian-faith

Explain for us, Matthew 26:61??

 

[TruthSetsFree]

I was able to find some cached pages online of the list. ::wave:

it is telling that you think there is something wrong with being zealous for Jesus... and His beautiful Church

but then....

u r choleric

what do we expect?

 

[Choleric]

it is telling that you think there is something wrong with being zealous for Jesus... and His beautiful Church

but then....

u r choleric

what do we expect?

There Is nothing wrong with being zealous for Jesus. But there is something terribly wrong with being zealous which is not according to knowledge, as the Bible States:

For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. -Romans 10:2

And your denomination is not His church. His church is not a building or denomination. You would know that if you read and believed the bible.

 

[TruthSetsFree]

There Is nothing wrong with being zealous for Jesus. But there is something terribly wrong with being zealous which is not according to knowledge, as the Bible States:

For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. -Romans 10:2

And your denomination is not His church. His church is not a building or denomination. You would know that if you read and believed the bible.

there is ONE Church and that Church is NOT called a denomination.

there is the Church and then there are protestant denominations.

and how ironic that u accuse catholics of not having knowledge. Catholic priests are more educated tahn most protestant ministers, usually WAY more educated... Heck, u can get a minister's license just by knowing a little about the Bible and sending away for it in the mail...

it is protestants who lack knowledge... there is knowledge found at Holy Mass that can be found nowhere else... becasue God..

well... as th Word says... He cannot bear to look upon evil...

at the Holy Mass... well, the evil is overcome, the evil within humans

 

[serpentdove]

Add Idolater:

"Peter was the first pope." ~ Idolater Heb. 13:9

"Transubstantiation....t is not a false teaching." ~ Idolater Matt. 24:4-5, 24, 2 Thess. 2:7-12

 

[glew]

BIG TRUCKER Delmar, patron saint of smack will run right over you with them 18 wheels if you take a wrong turn. beep beep


copy?

 

[glew]

Hey BIG TRUCKER Delmar,

Are you one of them card carrying Teemster truckers? Are you a little Jimmy Hoffa enforcer. 'cause Cous' that is what it looks like from o'r here.

 

[glew]

(if you listen close you can here BIG TRUCKER on the sax)


on a long and lonesome highway east of omaha
you can listen to the engine moanin' out his one note song
you can think about the woman or the girl you knew the night before
but your thoughts will soon be wandering
the way they always do when you're riding 16 hours
and there's nothin' much to do
and you don't feel much like ridin'
you just wish the trip was through

say here i am on the road again
there i am up on the stage
here i go playin' star again
there i go turn the page

well you walk into a restaurant strung out from the road
and you feel the eyes upon you as you're shakin' off the cold
you pretend it doesn't bother you but you just want to explode
most times you can't hear 'em talk other times you can
all the same old cliches, "is that a woman or a man?"
and you always seem outnumbered, you don't dare make a stand

here i am on the road again
there i am up on the stage
here i go playin' star again
there i go turn the page

out there in the spotlight you're a million miles away
every ounce of energy you try to give away
as the sweat pours out your body like the music that you play
later in the evening as you lie awake in bed
with the echoes from the amplifiers ringin' in your head
you smoke the day's last cigarette rememberin what she said

here i am on the road again
there i am up on the stage
here i go playin' star again
there i go turn the page

 

[glew]

I guess it is ok for a trucker to tell us what we can and can not say. After all, they brng us our bibles.

 

[glew]

What is the matter, you don't think Teamsters make the TOL Satanic list?

I got news for ya. The National Brotherhood, the ones bringing you your Bibles might not be all good ol' boyz. They might not be angelic messangers.

 

[glew]

It is hard to accept that a BIG TRUCKER can tell Theologians what they can discuss and how they can discuss it.

It is hard to accept that an organization as utterly corrupt as the Teamsters here in America are the ones bringing us our Bibles.

(I imagine how difficult it must have been for those poor old German Generals. How they had to listen to the ravings of a lunitic Corporal and then have to go and do his bidding.)

 

[glew]

You see, this is the complaint that the Jews are making about Christianity if you would just listen for once-

The account of the birth of Jesus is an account of the Jewish Messiah. It is a Jewish version of history. And their Jewish complaint is-

How can this nobody Jesus who does not even have a legitimate father be Lord over us? To the Jews, Jesus is a raving lunatic of no higher ranking than a Corporal. At best he is a trucker delivery boy. He is a nobody.

 

[glew]

You are not going to listen are you. You refuse to listen. You leave me no choice. I am going to turn up the heat.

 

[Choleric]

Interesting conversation glew. I think your point to glew was right on and the way glew handles glews rebuttal was decisive. I say it is glew 2-glew 2. Dead tie for the victory in this glew-glew debate.

I am enjoying this conversation. :carryon: