Sacrifices

blackSand

Member
Where does this idea of God, son of God or any man must die for us to be save originate ?
Did God command or requested?
Did the prophets were aware of it?
Did Jesus preach it?
 

ttruscott

Well-known member
First: Jesus taught He would be killed and resurrected in the context of it being predicted by the prophets: Lk 18:31 Then Jesus took the Twelve aside and said to them, “Look, we are going up to Jerusalem, and everything the prophets have written about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32 He will be delivered over to the Gentiles and will be mocked and insulted and spit upon. 33 They will flog Him and kill Him, and on the third day He will rise again.”

34 But the disciples did not understand any of these things. The meaning was hidden from them, and they did not comprehend what He was saying.


And on the road to Emmaus: Lk 24:25 Then Jesus said to them, “O foolish ones, how slow are your hearts to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and then to enter His glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He explained to them what was written in all the Scriptures about Himself. Why was His death necessary??

John, the beloved disciple claimed “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." which he must have learned from Christ when he taught them the full meaning of the prophets:
Is 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.
the doctrine that was summed up by John the Baptist, "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." Jn 1:29.

He offered Himself before creation to be the Lamb. Rev 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. and that death was our salvation: 1 John 2:2 And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not only for ours, but also for those of the whole world.
 
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blackSand

Member
First: Jesus taught He would be killed and resurrected in the context of it being predicted by the prophets: Lk 18:31 Then Jesus took the Twelve aside and said to them, “Look, we are going up to Jerusalem, and everything the prophets have written about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32 He will be delivered over to the Gentiles and will be mocked and insulted and spit upon. 33 They will flog Him and kill Him, and on the third day He will rise again.”

34 But the disciples did not understand any of these things. The meaning was hidden from them, and they did not comprehend what He was saying.


And on the road to Emmaus: Lk 24:25 Then Jesus said to them, “O foolish ones, how slow are your hearts to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and then to enter His glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He explained to them what was written in all the Scriptures about Himself. Why was His death necessary??

John, the beloved disciple claimed “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." which he must have learned from Christ when he taught them the full meaning of the prophets:
Is 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.
the doctrine that was summed up by John the Baptist, "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." Jn 1:29.

He offered Himself before creation to be the Lamb. Rev 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. and that death was our salvation: 1 John 2:2 And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not only for ours, but also for those of the whole world.
Thank you,
Unfortunately none of the above comes close to answer my question.
I Have no problem with the suffering and the killing of the messiah just like the suffering and killing of prophets before him.
The apostles of Jesus were shocked and angry at the Jews to know he was killed , why?
Because he never told them, he was sent to die for me and you.
If Jesus mission to die for you and me, why then he he said way before his death : his mission was accomplished (John 17:4)??
Q: Did the killers of Jesus pleased God or committed sin when the killed him?
Again, where is idea of God, his son or any man or animal must die to atone for our sins?
First: Jesus taught He would be killed and resurrected in the context of it being predicted by the prophets: Lk 18:31 Then Jesus took the Twelve aside and said to them, “Look, we are going up to Jerusalem, and everything the prophets have written about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32 He will be delivered over to the Gentiles and will be mocked and insulted and spit upon. 33 They will flog Him and kill Him, and on the third day He will rise again.”

34 But the disciples did not understand any of these things. The meaning was hidden from them, and they did not comprehend what He was saying.


And on the road to Emmaus: Lk 24:25 Then Jesus said to them, “O foolish ones, how slow are your hearts to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and then to enter His glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He explained to them what was written in all the Scriptures about Himself. Why was His death necessary??

John, the beloved disciple claimed “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." which he must have learned from Christ when he taught them the full meaning of the prophets:
Is 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.
the doctrine that was summed up by John the Baptist, "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." Jn 1:29.

He offered Himself before creation to be the Lamb. Rev 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. and that death was our salvation: 1 John 2:2 And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not only for ours, but also for those of the whole world.
 

marke

Well-known member
Where does this idea of God, son of God or any man must die for us to be save originate ?
Did God command or requested?
Did the prophets were aware of it?
Did Jesus preach it?
Humans are not like God in many respects. Humans must be taught right from wrong, while God has an absolute and perfect understanding of right and wrong. It is God who told us that sin is wrong and that He could not just forgive sins without rendering some sort of just punishment for those sins. It is God who explained to humans that a blood sacrifice had to be made to atone for sins.

Thank God for the sacrifice Jesus made on our behalf by offering His spotless blood on the altar to atone for our sins.
 

blackSand

Member
Humans are not like God in many respects. Humans must be taught right from wrong, while God has an absolute and perfect understanding of right and wrong. It is God who told us that sin is wrong and that He could not just forgive sins without rendering some sort of just punishment for those sins. It is God who explained to humans that a blood sacrifice had to be made to atone for sins.

Thank God for the sacrifice Jesus made on our behalf by offering His spotless blood on the altar to atone for our sins.
Marke answer:
is God who explained to humans that a blood sacrifice had to be made to atone)

>>>Thank you.
Would you please lead me to where God command such thing?
 

marke

Well-known member
Marke answer:
is God who explained to humans that a blood sacrifice had to be made to atone)

>>>Thank you.
Would you please lead me to where God command such thing?
Here is one verse:

Hebrews 9:22
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
 

blackSand

Member
Here is one verse:

Hebrews 9:22
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
>>>When we look at the above verse, the writer quote the OT law regarding the unintentional sins only as penalty for committing these little sin.
Blood never cover any sins committed intentionally .
Covering the sins with blood of any kind is man made doctrine.
God, the prophets and Jesus condemned the practice and command the Jews to stop doing it.
For example David committed 2 awful sins, and God forgave him only when he confessed his sins, no blood no animal no humans sacrifices.
Thank you.
 

Idolater

"Never believe anyone who is not cross-examined."
Where does this idea of God, son of God or any man must die for us to be save originate ?
Did God command or requested?
Did the prophets were aware of it?
Did Jesus preach it?
For one, Abraham prophesied it: " And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering" Genesis 22:8
 

blackSand

Member
For one, Abraham prophesied it: " And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering" Genesis 22:8
>>>Keep going to verse 13:Abraham looked up and there in a thicket he saw a ram[a] caught by its horns.(Z) He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son

God hates human and animals sacrifices if it was his son or Abraham son, it just doesn’t make sense to him.
Animals and human sacrifices are man made practice.
 

blackSand

Member
Thank you,
Unfortunately none of the above comes close to answer my question.
I Have no problem with the suffering and the killing of the messiah just like the suffering and killing of prophets before him.
The apostles of Jesus were shocked and angry at the Jews to know he was killed , why?
Because he never told them, he was sent to die for me and you.
If Jesus mission to die for you and me, why then he he said way before his death : his mission was accomplished (John 17:4)??
Q: Did the killers of Jesus pleased God or committed sin when the killed him?
Again, where is idea of God, his son or any man or animal must die to atone for our sins?
>>>If he was beating , suffer, stoned to death or any kind of death is not the point no argument from me.
The question is: did God sent him to be a sacrifice so he will be pleased with us?
No.
Because God, the prophets and Jesus hate sacrifices and they never command such acts
The Jewish leaders at the synagogue made this practice to make living and milk the people just like the early Catholic Church did.If you think sacrifices and blood to whip our sins were God command?
Please prove it .
 

Idolater

"Never believe anyone who is not cross-examined."
>>>If he was beating , suffer, stoned to death or any kind of death is not the point no argument from me.
The question is: did God sent him to be a sacrifice so he will be pleased with us?
No.
Because God, the prophets and Jesus hate sacrifices and they never command such acts
The Jewish leaders at the synagogue made this practice to make living and milk the people just like the early Catholic Church did.If you think sacrifices and blood to whip our sins were God command?
Please prove it .
1st Corinthians 10:19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?

20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

The "Lord's table" is an altar, altars are where sacrifices are offered to deities, the Church offers sacrifices on the Lord's table because the Lord is the Church's deity.
 

blackSand

Member
God demanded animal sacrifices in the Pentateuch.
>> God denied he told anyone such a thing.
Jeremiah 7:22.
Countless of times all the prophets told the Jews to abandon this act .
Do you think if it was from God the prophets will disapproved? Of course not
Look what Jesus did at John 2:13-16.
If it was from God do you think he’ll condemn it?
 

Bradley D

Well-known member
>> God denied he told anyone such a thing.
Jeremiah 7:22.
No! That is not what Jeremiah said. He told them that in addition to the commands about the burnt offerings and sacrifices. They were also to obey God.

“This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Go ahead, add your burnt offerings to your other sacrifices and eat the meat yourselves! For when I brought your ancestors out of Egypt and spoke to them, I did not just give them commands about burnt offerings and sacrifices, but I gave them this command: Obey me, and I will be your God and you will be my people. Walk in obedience to all I command you, that it may go well with you" (Jeremiah 7:21-23)
 

blackSand

Member
No! That is not what Jeremiah said. He told them that in addition to the commands about the burnt offerings and sacrifices. They were also to obey God.

“This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Go ahead, add your burnt offerings to your other sacrifices and eat the meat yourselves! For when I brought your ancestors out of Egypt and spoke to them, I did not just give them commands about burnt offerings and sacrifices, but I gave them this command: Obey me, and I will be your God and you will be my people. Walk in obedience to all I command you, that it may go well with you" (Jeremiah 7:21-23)
>>>Did you ever wonder why All Jewish and Christians English translation disagree with your NIV translation?
Please check
Kjv
Nkjv
Nlt
Isv
Esv
Bsb
Ampcsb
Asv
Dbt
Tenakh the Jewish Bible.
Have a good day
 

Eric h

Well-known member
When Jesus spent his time on Earth; he would have lived by the greatest commandments; he could do nothing greater. But how did Jesus hold out his hands on the cross and love the man with the hammer and nails as he loves himself. We know Jesus prayed on the cross; forgive them Father for they know not what they do.

But when Jesus prayed forgive 'Them'. Who is 'Them'? What sins did they commit?

To forgive someone is a great thing to do, but to continue loving them as you love yourself seems profound and beyond our human understanding. Some people might think their sins are so great that there is no hope for them. But the resurrection does give us hope that if we repent we are still loved by God. The resurrection also gives us hope in a greater good life after death.
 

JudgeRightly

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When Jesus spent his time on Earth; he would have lived by the greatest commandments;

Just the greatest commandments?

No. He would have kept the ENTIRE Law. Else He would have been a hypocrite when He said:

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. - Matthew 5:17-20 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew5:17-20&version=NKJV

He could do nothing greater. But how did Jesus hold out his hands on the cross and love the man with the hammer and nails as he loves himself.

Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. - John 15:13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John15:13&version=NKJV

We know Jesus prayed on the cross; forgive them Father for they know not what they do.

But when Jesus prayed forgive 'Them'. Who is 'Them'? What sins did they commit?


To forgive someone is a great thing to do, but to continue loving them as you love yourself seems profound and beyond our human understanding. Some people might think their sins are so great that there is no hope for them. But the resurrection does give us hope that if we repent we are still loved by God. The resurrection also gives us hope in a greater good life after death.
 

Bradley D

Well-known member
Just the greatest commandments?

No. He would have kept the ENTIRE Law. Else He would have been a hypocrite when He said:
Doesn't the two great commandments cover the law.

"On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets" (Mt. 22:40).
 
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