God's Truth
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You raise a very good point. This is where it gets a little more complicated, because there are false teachers and they teach others false doctrines. Isn't that what Satan has ensnared them to do?
Rules Governing The Gift Of Teaching
- Thread starter WeberHome
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You raise a very good point. This is where it gets a little more complicated, because there are false teachers and they teach others false doctrines. Isn't that what Satan has ensnared them to do?
iamaberean
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WeberHome
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Re: Rules Governing The Gift Of Teaching
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● 2Tim 3:16 . . All scripture is useful for teaching
At the time when the apostle Paul wrote that comment to his pal Timothy, "scripture" was almost exclusively limited to the Old Testament. So then, it's my judgment that someone Spirit-empowered to teach for Christ, should work with the Old Testament as well as the New because he did.
● Luke 24:44-45 . .Then he said to them: These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning me. And he opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the scriptures.
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● 2Tim 3:16 . . All scripture is useful for teaching
At the time when the apostle Paul wrote that comment to his pal Timothy, "scripture" was almost exclusively limited to the Old Testament. So then, it's my judgment that someone Spirit-empowered to teach for Christ, should work with the Old Testament as well as the New because he did.
● Luke 24:44-45 . .Then he said to them: These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning me. And he opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the scriptures.
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iamaberean
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You quoted it, "all things must be fulfilled which were written in the law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning me".
Jesus fulfilled 'all things' written in the old testament about him.
We must read the Old Testament for understanding but we are not living under 'law', we live under 'grace' and we should not mix them together. (Read all scripture that speaks of 'old vs new', they don't mix.} Here are a couple:
Mat 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
Mar 2:21 No man also seweth a piece of new cloth on an old garment: else the new piece that filled it up taketh away from the old, and the rent is made worse.
Many false teachers take scripture from the 'old' and infer that it also applies to the 'new'. The biggest lie in the church is that 'we' are commanded to tithe. Not so! When Jesus spoke of tithing he was speaking to the Jews who were still living under the law.
Knowledge of God's word comes, many times, to us by taking notice of the audience.
iamaberean
New member
One more scripture:
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
God's Truth
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The works of the law that used to be required for justification are these:
The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.
Those works the people used to have to do to clean themselves.
Obeying God is not a work of the law.
The work that justifies us now and cleans us is Jesus does it for us if we only believe his blood cleans us of the sins we repent of doing.
WeberHome
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Re: Rules Governing The Gift Of Teaching
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● 1Cor 12:27-31 . . Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.
Are all apostles? NO.
Are all prophets? NO.
Are all teachers? NO.
Do all work miracles? NO.
Do all have gifts of healing? NO.
Do all speak in tongues? NO.
Do all interpret? NO.
● Jas 3:1 . . Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.
● Matt 12:36-37 . . I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.
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● 1Cor 12:27-31 . . Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.
Are all apostles? NO.
Are all prophets? NO.
Are all teachers? NO.
Do all work miracles? NO.
Do all have gifts of healing? NO.
Do all speak in tongues? NO.
Do all interpret? NO.
● Jas 3:1 . . Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.
● Matt 12:36-37 . . I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.
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God's Truth
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During the laying of the foundation many miracles, signs, and gifts were given.
Hebrews 2:4
The foundation has been laid.
Eph 2:20
WeberHome
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Re: Rules Governing The Gift Of Teaching
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Q: How would an interested party go about locating teachers endowed with the Spirit's gift?
A: Male meerkats are attracted to female meerkats. Male eagles are attracted to female eagles. Male elk are attracted to female elk.
Those male/female attractions aren't regulated by written how-to instructions. In other words; every creature on earth is wired to be attracted to its own species rather than some other species because it's in their nature to do so, i.e. they can't help but be attracted to their own species.
According to 2Pet 1:2-4, Christ's sheep are partakers of the divine nature. Well; that is quite an advantage over John Q and Jane Doe pew warmer. Christ's sheep are attracted to his gifted teachers because it is in the divine nature's nature to be attracted to its own kind.
● John 10:4-6 . .When he has brought out all his own sheep, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice. Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them.
NOTE: The voice spoken of in that passage as "his voice" isn't literal. According to the Lord; it's a figure of speech.
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Q: How would an interested party go about locating teachers endowed with the Spirit's gift?
A: Male meerkats are attracted to female meerkats. Male eagles are attracted to female eagles. Male elk are attracted to female elk.
Those male/female attractions aren't regulated by written how-to instructions. In other words; every creature on earth is wired to be attracted to its own species rather than some other species because it's in their nature to do so, i.e. they can't help but be attracted to their own species.
According to 2Pet 1:2-4, Christ's sheep are partakers of the divine nature. Well; that is quite an advantage over John Q and Jane Doe pew warmer. Christ's sheep are attracted to his gifted teachers because it is in the divine nature's nature to be attracted to its own kind.
● John 10:4-6 . .When he has brought out all his own sheep, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice. Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them.
NOTE: The voice spoken of in that passage as "his voice" isn't literal. According to the Lord; it's a figure of speech.
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God's Truth
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But one could literally hear his voice. People have literally heard his voice.
There is a way for one to become a sheep.
If anyone wants to become a sheep they can.
iamaberean
New member
A sheep is a follower! In order to become a Shepard one should pray and study God's word. Most Shepherds have studied only what their denomination teaches. I am telling you that the doctrine of these denominations are man made and not based on truth and the bible says:
Mat 15:13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
Mat 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
God's Truth
New member
I have yet to find a denomination that has not preached some falseness. Non denominational just means they are not under a major denomination, but they could still have some false doctrines as major denominations.
Even someone not involved in a nowadays church can be in falseness.
iamaberean
New member
Probably most of them. At some point and time people have turned away from the truth that had been presented to them by the Apostles. Money became the primary reason to become a preacher. People began to worship the man more than God.
That really isn't strange is it? It's just in our nature to take man's word over God's.
Jesus said ye must be born again of the water and the Spirit.
How many today have the Spirit of God in them?
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
How many today have been baptized in water and spoken in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance? Few and far between!
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Joh 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not.
Many Pastors today will tell you that the above does not apply to us! Oh, really?
WeberHome
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Re: Rules Governing The Gift Of Teaching
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● 1Cor 14:18-19 . . I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.
The primary purpose of any tongue-- whether a crow's caw, a cow's moo, or a gerbil's squeak --is to communicate. Well; if a teacher's Sunday school class and/or his congregation consists of folk who speak his own language, then for their sake, if not for Christ's, the teacher should teach them in his own language. If not, then he is supposed to have a translator on hand so the people get something out of what he's trying to explain.
● 1Cor 14:5 . . He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.
● 1Cor 14:6-12 . . Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?
. . . Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.
. . . Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church.
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● 1Cor 14:18-19 . . I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.
The primary purpose of any tongue-- whether a crow's caw, a cow's moo, or a gerbil's squeak --is to communicate. Well; if a teacher's Sunday school class and/or his congregation consists of folk who speak his own language, then for their sake, if not for Christ's, the teacher should teach them in his own language. If not, then he is supposed to have a translator on hand so the people get something out of what he's trying to explain.
● 1Cor 14:5 . . He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.
● 1Cor 14:6-12 . . Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?
. . . Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.
. . . Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church.
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iamaberean
New member
Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
WeberHome
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Re: Rules Governing The Gift Of Teaching
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● 1Cor 2:1-5 . .When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.
One of the hindrances to Christianity's propagation is the fact that it won't hold up in a court of law; and that's simply because Christianity is illogical and unscientific, i.e. it cannot be empirically proven true beyond a shadow of sensible doubt.
Apologetics can be defined as a branch of theology devoted to the defense of the divine origin and authority of Christianity. That definition does not depict the Spirit's method. He offers no apologies; for example:
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." (Gen 1:1)
The Spirit didn't begin the Bible with an argument as to the existence of a supreme being; nor make a case for its posit that the cosmos, with all of its forms of life, matter, and energy is the product of intelligent design. In other words: the Spirit comes across as a closed-minded kook; thoroughly unwilling to come to its senses and listen to reason.
● 1Cor 2:14 . . A natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him
Thus I must conclude that people endowed with the Spirit's gift to teach for Christ, don't do so by means of apologetics; which in my opinion amount to nothing more than perpetual bull sessions that never get to the bottom of anything.
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● 1Cor 2:1-5 . .When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.
One of the hindrances to Christianity's propagation is the fact that it won't hold up in a court of law; and that's simply because Christianity is illogical and unscientific, i.e. it cannot be empirically proven true beyond a shadow of sensible doubt.
Apologetics can be defined as a branch of theology devoted to the defense of the divine origin and authority of Christianity. That definition does not depict the Spirit's method. He offers no apologies; for example:
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." (Gen 1:1)
The Spirit didn't begin the Bible with an argument as to the existence of a supreme being; nor make a case for its posit that the cosmos, with all of its forms of life, matter, and energy is the product of intelligent design. In other words: the Spirit comes across as a closed-minded kook; thoroughly unwilling to come to its senses and listen to reason.
● 1Cor 2:14 . . A natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him
Thus I must conclude that people endowed with the Spirit's gift to teach for Christ, don't do so by means of apologetics; which in my opinion amount to nothing more than perpetual bull sessions that never get to the bottom of anything.
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God's Truth
New member
Many have the base teaching of faith without obedience. That is a strange doctrine that foolish, ignorant, and unstable believe.
There are many false doctrines.
Money is the primary reason for many. However, if they were to preach the truth, yet even for money, at least the truth would be preached: however, they preach for money and what they preach is falseness.
I was raised Catholic and then when my mom was dying and a priest was called to give her last rite, I knew something was wrong and began my search for God's Truth and not some religion's truth.
I searched for God after that, but still searched in denominations, thinking that was the way.
However, it wasn't until I started to obey Jesus' teachings in the Holy Bible did I find God.
Being born again, of water and Spirit, it is about being washed and having the Spirit live inside you. That happens after getting Jesus' teachings and obeying them.
We are born of water/washed, after we repent of our sins, then the Holy Spirit, after washings us, lives in us.
I have often wondered that.
Speaking in tongues have ceased. Not all spoke in tongues anyway.
Many falsely say speaking in tongues is for all, then and now.
That is not truth, not then, and not now.
WeberHome
New member
Re: Rules Governing The Gift Of Teaching
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● 1Tim 2:11-13 . . Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
It's important to note that this is neither a gender issue nor an issue related to competence; it's an issue related to primogeniture-- for that reason, and that reason alone, it is a disgrace for Christian women to lead Christian men in a Christian congregation.
That rule applies to home Bible studies too. If Christian men are present, then Christian women are supposed to bite their tongue no matter if they know the Bible better than the man leading the study.
BTW: A mixed-gender home Bible study without a Spirit-endowed male expositor is not a Bible study at all; no, it's a bull session. In those situations, it doesn't matter if women speak since the discussions are really no more Spirit-directed than a common chat.
A natural question arises in cases of women like Anne Graham Lotz. Is she out of order? No; because Anne's preaching and teaching are typically public rather than before a Christian congregation.
So then, though women aren't permitted to speak to a mixed-gender Christian congregation, that doesn't mean they can't speak to a mixed-gender public forum, or in the street; or in a coliseum, or in a stadium, or in a convention center, or on radio and television; or with a megaphone out on Pluto.
The best place in church for women blessed with the Spirit's gift to teach for Christ is in a women's group; and if a man should invade a women's group led by a Spirit-gifted woman; I think he should be asked to leave.
Q: What about Deborah in the Old Testament book of judges? Exactly how is she an exception to this rule, if indeed she was?
A: Deborah was a Jewish woman whose association with Jewish people and with the Jews' God was by means of a very different covenant than the one by which Christian women associate with Christian congregations and with Christianity's Christ. I do not recommend using Deborah, or any other woman in the Bible, as an excuse to defy Christ.
● John 15:14 . .You are my friends if you do as I wish.
FYI: A very important point too often overlooked in Deborah's case is that there is no textual evidence indicating that she intruded either the priesthood or the Sanhedrin.
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● 1Tim 2:11-13 . . Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
It's important to note that this is neither a gender issue nor an issue related to competence; it's an issue related to primogeniture-- for that reason, and that reason alone, it is a disgrace for Christian women to lead Christian men in a Christian congregation.
That rule applies to home Bible studies too. If Christian men are present, then Christian women are supposed to bite their tongue no matter if they know the Bible better than the man leading the study.
BTW: A mixed-gender home Bible study without a Spirit-endowed male expositor is not a Bible study at all; no, it's a bull session. In those situations, it doesn't matter if women speak since the discussions are really no more Spirit-directed than a common chat.
A natural question arises in cases of women like Anne Graham Lotz. Is she out of order? No; because Anne's preaching and teaching are typically public rather than before a Christian congregation.
So then, though women aren't permitted to speak to a mixed-gender Christian congregation, that doesn't mean they can't speak to a mixed-gender public forum, or in the street; or in a coliseum, or in a stadium, or in a convention center, or on radio and television; or with a megaphone out on Pluto.
The best place in church for women blessed with the Spirit's gift to teach for Christ is in a women's group; and if a man should invade a women's group led by a Spirit-gifted woman; I think he should be asked to leave.
Q: What about Deborah in the Old Testament book of judges? Exactly how is she an exception to this rule, if indeed she was?
A: Deborah was a Jewish woman whose association with Jewish people and with the Jews' God was by means of a very different covenant than the one by which Christian women associate with Christian congregations and with Christianity's Christ. I do not recommend using Deborah, or any other woman in the Bible, as an excuse to defy Christ.
● John 15:14 . .You are my friends if you do as I wish.
FYI: A very important point too often overlooked in Deborah's case is that there is no textual evidence indicating that she intruded either the priesthood or the Sanhedrin.
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WeberHome
New member
Re: Rules Governing The Gift Of Teaching
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● 1Cor 2:12-13 . . We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
The interesting aspect of spiritual words is their simplicity. For example; Christ utilized ordinary words while teaching about eating his flesh and blood (John 6:63).
So then; when somebody parrots that rather lengthy section in the gospel of John, they are parroting spiritual words, yes; however, parroting spiritual words and applying spiritual words, involves the use of two very different skill sets.
Any 6th grade school kid can read, write, and recite spiritual words; but educated abilities like those do not indicate that the kid is a Christ-gifted teacher. No, the guy who can articulate the sense of those words in a way that the Lord's sheep understand is the guy with the goods.
But that's only half the story. The Spirit doesn't "flow thru" a Christ-gifted teacher as if they were a channel. No, the Spirit works alongside the Christ-gifted teacher; silently and invisibly, corroborating the things he's saying.
● 1Cor 2:4-5 . . My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.
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● 1Cor 2:12-13 . . We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
The interesting aspect of spiritual words is their simplicity. For example; Christ utilized ordinary words while teaching about eating his flesh and blood (John 6:63).
So then; when somebody parrots that rather lengthy section in the gospel of John, they are parroting spiritual words, yes; however, parroting spiritual words and applying spiritual words, involves the use of two very different skill sets.
Any 6th grade school kid can read, write, and recite spiritual words; but educated abilities like those do not indicate that the kid is a Christ-gifted teacher. No, the guy who can articulate the sense of those words in a way that the Lord's sheep understand is the guy with the goods.
But that's only half the story. The Spirit doesn't "flow thru" a Christ-gifted teacher as if they were a channel. No, the Spirit works alongside the Christ-gifted teacher; silently and invisibly, corroborating the things he's saying.
● 1Cor 2:4-5 . . My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.
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I said
I would think that a good teacher would teach the rules of believing. Not to even think beyond what is written, and not to add one thing to the verses or take one thing away from the verses.
[1Co 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
[Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.
There are usually two kinds of teachers.
[Phl 1:15-17
15 Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife, and some also from goodwill:
16 The former preach Christ from selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my chains;
17 but the latter out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel.