Robb Elementary School shooting

This Charming Manc

Well-known member
The fact remains that where guns are scarce, limited, or banned, mass shootings have prevailed. Outlawing guns will do nothing to turn a murderer into a law-abiding citizen. Large Democrat-controlled cities have some of the most restrictive gun laws and the highest murder by firearm rates. Restrictive gun laws are not working. It is the height of stupidity to double down on failed policies in hopes that someday those policies might end up working.

Marke, I fully admit and always have gun control laws that don't stop the supply of Guns don't work. So with porous borders between cities and states the laws are going to make little difference.

Im in the UK its very very hard to get a gun at all and thus gun crime is rare. School shootings haven't happened in over 25 years, and our murder and suicide rates are much lower.

I think anything the US does in this area has to be federal to be effective, criminals will carry guns over state borders. The law needs to stop supply not make it illegal to carry guns with high supply.
 

TomO

Get used to it.
Hall of Fame
Because if I was determined to achieve a high body count in a school shooting in which I intended to die, I could do a whole lot better than using a gun.
Really... :rolleyes: I could go on at length on this subject...

The sad fact is that most people have only a rudimentary (schoolyard) understanding of violence...Padded by a healthy dose of Hollywood.

Remember how the "Saturday Night Special" laws were supposed to get guns out of crime by banning the sort of cheap handguns criminals of the time preferred? They did...Now, thanks to that (and the War On Drugs) you can be assured that the street thug you run into in that dark alley will have a nice reliable Glock .40 rather than a Raven Arms .25 that was probably going to jam.

Chlorine gas cylinders are everywhere....And people are stupid panicky animals by in large.

I wish I was 20 years older.
 
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This Charming Manc

Well-known member
They all have one thing in common. They all have liberal access to guns.

This will keep happening as long as they have liberal access to guns.

Lets be fair they are both true, lets continue to work to improve the human condition and let's looking at access to firearms as we do so.
 

User Name

Greatest poster ever
Lets be fair they are both true
Not really. Doser says they are "evil" and "demon led". That's a cop-out in my opinion. Not a word was mentioned about insanity/mental illness. No truly sane person would choose to do these things. Living as we do in a society where mental illness is left largely unchecked and where guns proliferate, these things are bound to continue to happen on a regular basis. Society can and should proactively deal with both mental illness and the proliferation of guns. We can't do anything about demons, which is precisely why doser would prefer to focus on them.
 

marke

Well-known member
It doesn't happen much, if at all, in countries that have strict gun control laws.
What about those countries? This is about Sweden:
https://www.scarymommy.com/gun-control-policies-united-states-vs-sweden

U.S. Could Benefit Greatly From Sweden's Gun Control Policies

This is also about Sweden:

Sweden’s gun violence rate has soared due to gangs, report says​

 

marke

Well-known member
Marke, I fully admit and always have gun control laws that don't stop the supply of Guns don't work. So with porous borders between cities and states the laws are going to make little difference.

Im in the UK its very very hard to get a gun at all and thus gun crime is rare. School shootings haven't happened in over 25 years, and our murder and suicide rates are much lower.

I think anything the US does in this area has to be federal to be effective, criminals will carry guns over state borders. The law needs to stop supply not make it illegal to carry guns with high supply.
If our government could figure out a way to get Americans to give up firearm freedoms without endangering the safety and security of all Americans under threats of hostile murderous barbarians both outside and inside the nation then maybe Americans could logically consider giving up traditional gun rights and pleasures.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
It doesn't tend to happen.

We had a serious knife attack in 1996, which ended with 7 pupils injured none killed, and no other significant incidents with multiple fatalities/victims spring to mind. I think a headmaster was stabbed fatally in mind 2010's but that's it for the UK.

Its seems to be that gun culture and the influence it brings, means that desperate and broken people have the ability lash out in a way that 'gets back at the system' its much rarer in other countries.

I'm not saying other countries have it perfect, just that the laws seem to mitigate evil intent in the way I think laws are supposed to.
Again if I wanted to lash out in a way that gets back at the system I would choose a much more effective way that would result in a much higher body count especially if I didn't care about surviving the attack, and in a manner that would be impossible to be mitigated by law.

The highest body count in recent memory was achieved buy a bunch of guys with box cutters. Last year a nut in a car mowed down a whole bunch of people at a Christmas parade. The highest body count from a single actor in a single action was performed with a match and a can of gasoline.

So if I'm a disaffected youth with bad intent, the lack of access to guns isn't going to dissuade me.

I suspect that we have something endemic in this country that creates disaffected youths willing to act regardless of the tool they choose.
 

TomO

Get used to it.
Hall of Fame
I suspect that we have something endemic in this country that creates disaffected youths willing to act regardless of the tool they choose.
Nah, this country is just like every other country which is why their experience is so relevant to our situation. 😐
 

Idolater

"Lahey, I live in a tent!"
Temp Banned
It doesn't happen much, if at all, in countries that have strict gun control laws.
Manifestly false. You're cherrypicking. There are countries with far stricter gun laws (way fewer guns per capita) and way more murders per capita. It's murderers per capita that overwhelmingly influences murders per capita. In fact the civilian guns owned globally by country is inversely proportional to murders, not the other way around.
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
Salvador Ramos, 18, used an AR-15-style semi-automatic rifle in the bloodbath Tuesday at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde. He had legally bought the two rifles just days before the attack, soon after his 18th birthday, authorities said.


Officials said they recovered two AR-15-style rifles from the scene at the elementary school, the Houston Chronicle reported.

Rob Elgas, a reporter with ABC7 Chicago, also tweeted that authorities recovered an "AR-15 style rifle" and "numerous magazines" at the scene.
Authorities said the gunman bought two weapons shortly after turning 18.

Authorities and state Sen. John Whitmire said the gunman had purchased one of the rifles recovered from the shooting from a licensed gun store on May 17, the day after his 18th birthday, the Chronicle reported.

The following day, May 18, the gunman purchased 375 rounds of ammunition, and two days later, on May 20, he purchased a second rifle, the Chronicle reported.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
Salvador Ramos, 18, used an AR-15-style semi-automatic rifle in the bloodbath Tuesday at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde. He had legally bought the two rifles just days before the attack, soon after his 18th birthday, authorities said.


Officials said they recovered two AR-15-style rifles from the scene at the elementary school, the Houston Chronicle reported.

Rob Elgas, a reporter with ABC7 Chicago, also tweeted that authorities recovered an "AR-15 style rifle" and "numerous magazines" at the scene.
Authorities said the gunman bought two weapons shortly after turning 18.

Authorities and state Sen. John Whitmire said the gunman had purchased one of the rifles recovered from the shooting from a licensed gun store on May 17, the day after his 18th birthday, the Chronicle reported.

The following day, May 18, the gunman purchased 375 rounds of ammunition, and two days later, on May 20, he purchased a second rifle, the Chronicle reported.
What legal justification could have been used to deny him that purchase?
 

marke

Well-known member
"In contrast to the U.S. and Latin America, gun deaths are extremely rare in countries like Japan, the United Kingdom, Norway, and Australia. These countries have implemented incentives or passed legislation to decrease the number of firearms in circulation."

The problem with cherry-picking data to support bad ideas is those bad ideas are not improved by support from cherry-picked data. Leftists in America propagate the false narrative that reducing the number of guns increases the safety and security of citizens.
They all have one thing in common. They all have liberal access to guns.

This will keep happening as long as they have liberal access to guns.
Lefties are wrong to think decreasing the number of guns in a nation will lower its homicide rates. The US has about 1 gun for every citizen in the nation and its homicide rate is around 6.6 murders for every 100,000 people. Nigeria has about 1.5 guns for every 100 people and its homicide rate is around 34.5 murders for every 100,000 people.
 

Idolater

"Lahey, I live in a tent!"
Temp Banned
Salvador Ramos, 18, used an AR-15-style semi-automatic rifle in the bloodbath Tuesday at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde. He had legally bought the two rifles just days before the attack, soon after his 18th birthday, authorities said.


Officials said they recovered two AR-15-style rifles from the scene at the elementary school, the Houston Chronicle reported.

Rob Elgas, a reporter with ABC7 Chicago, also tweeted that authorities recovered an "AR-15 style rifle" and "numerous magazines" at the scene.
Authorities said the gunman bought two weapons shortly after turning 18.

Authorities and state Sen. John Whitmire said the gunman had purchased one of the rifles recovered from the shooting from a licensed gun store on May 17, the day after his 18th birthday, the Chronicle reported.

The following day, May 18, the gunman purchased 375 rounds of ammunition, and two days later, on May 20, he purchased a second rifle, the Chronicle reported.
Trace the mass murderer's moves in reverse, backward in time after the fact, try to find the point at which our government could have intervened. Obviously such analysis suggests background checks, which this particular mass murderer underwent and passed. So when background checks are administered and they don't intervene in the process the mass murderer followed, is there a way to make that step stop him rather than let him pass?

One thing I haven't heard about with this mass murderer yet, is whether there were any red flags or warning signs or altercations with the law or any threats or episodes of menacing or intimidation that his neighbors or family or anybody ever witnesses, recently. I'm watching for news like that.
 
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