ECT Rethinking Eschatology

[Lazy afternoon]

No. No, I don't.

I don't have any problem with metaphors in the Bible or apocalyptic language.

Usually, there should be something in the text that signals that one is coming, though. "Let the reader understand," or "here is wisdom," or "mystery hidden since the foundations of the world," or references to other passages which are known to be apocalyptic.

The passage in Matthew 24 qualifies on that account, actually. 2Thessalonians however, is straightforward, and explains Matthew 24 pretty clearly, if we will let it.

Jarrod

So where is this war?

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.


LA

 

[Wick Stick]

So where is this war?

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

LA

Experience has taught me to stay away from interpreting Revelation for people.

I'll just say that I believe "heaven" there is something that ought to be interpreted, rather than read literally. That's what you're getting at anyway, I think.

Jarrod

 

[Lazy afternoon]

So where is this war?

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.


LA

Experience has taught me to stay away from interpreting Revelation for people.

I'll just say that I believe "heaven" there is something that ought to be interpreted, rather than read literally. That's what you're getting at anyway, I think.

Jarrod

The war is spiritual and it is in the churches.

This is because satan has infiltrated into the meeting of the church, so that when they come before God, then satan is among them.

When satan is cast out from among them, and his servants with him then truly the Kingdom of God has come and satan in great wrath then knows he has but a short time.

LA

 

[Wick Stick]

I don't agree with your interpretation, but I must say that it is more reasonable than most interpretations of Revelation that I've run into.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Interplanner]

Don't build any doctrine on the Rev that is not totally clear elsewhere.

 

[Wick Stick]

I agree with that sentiment, but your timing is unusual. Isn't "wolves among the flock" pretty well established throughout the NT?

 

[whitestone]

lol,and the question still stands, Revelation 17:8 KJV ,,,who is it? Had Rome come and gone and existed in the pit? Babylon,or Persia Greece or Assyria,Egypt? Who had existed and was no more and was spoken of as dwelling in the pit,how can they return from the pit if they were not in it? Who in the world existed,was no more but is said to return when that scripture was written? hmmm, what if when this is understood it causes man to review and rearrange their current eschatology?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

lol,and the question still stands, Revelation 17:8 KJV ,,,who is it? Had Rome come and gone and existed in the pit? Babylon,or Persia Greece or Assyria,Egypt? Who had existed and was no more and was spoken of as dwelling in the pit,how can they return from the pit if they were not in it? Who in the world existed,was no more but is said to return when that scripture was written? hmmm, what if when this is understood it causes man to review and rearrange their current eschatology?

The spirit of rebellious baylon had been restrained but in the end its rebellious form returns.

Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Not speaking of one physical city.

Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

The type--

The Babylon under Neb was subdued by God for the sake of Gods people who lived in it.

When Babylon became fallen then God gave the kingdom to another.

In the endtimes it is almost the entire world where men cast off the recognition of the Holy God and treat His servants badly.

LA

 

[Interplanner]

lol,and the question still stands, Revelation 17:8 KJV ,,,who is it? Had Rome come and gone and existed in the pit? Babylon,or Persia Greece or Assyria,Egypt? Who had existed and was no more and was spoken of as dwelling in the pit,how can they return from the pit if they were not in it? Who in the world existed,was no more but is said to return when that scripture was written? hmmm, what if when this is understood it causes man to review and rearrange their current eschatology?

He's referring to the near collapse of the Roman empire in the civil strife of 67. Even the effort on the Jewish revolt stopped for one year while Rome regrouped.

 

[disturbo]

lol,and the question still stands, Revelation 17:8 KJV ,,,who is it? Had Rome come and gone and existed in the pit? Babylon,or Persia Greece or Assyria,Egypt? Who had existed and was no more and was spoken of as dwelling in the pit,how can they return from the pit if they were not in it? Who in the world existed,was no more but is said to return when that scripture was written? hmmm, what if when this is understood it causes man to review and rearrange their current eschatology?

Some people have figured this out. The man in question is Nebuchadnezzar reincarnated into Saddam Hussein. I know it sounds strange but...

Nebuchadnezzar was prophesied by Moses in Deuteronomy 28:48 as to the yoke of iron that would one day come on Israel if they kept disobeying God.

Jeremiah 30:6-8 speaks of a yoke that will only break at the end of the time of Jacob's trouble.

Notice the emphasis placed on "when the seventy years are accomplished."

Jeremiah 25:11 And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years. And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolations.

Jeremiah 29:10 For thus saith the LORD, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place.

Jeremiah 25:10-11 has yet to be 'completely' fulfilled because Nebuchadnezzar or the Babylonian kings never ruled the entire seventy years required to fulfill that prophecy.

People who say that the seventy years have been accomplished have no answer how God visited Israel afterwards. The seventy years ARE NOT COMPLETELY ACCOMPLISHED!

The second invasion of Nebuchadnezzar came in 597. Jerusalem was captured, King Jehoichin was deported to Babylon, and Zedekiah was placed on the throne. 2 Kings 24:17 Nebuchadnezzar ascended to the throne of Babylon on the death of his father Nabopolassor in September 605 after defeating the Egyptian armies at the famous battle of Carchemish. Egypt was weakened and Babylon became the greatest gentile power in the world. Daniel, and others were taken captive by Nebuchadnezzar in the same year 2 Kings 24:1. King Jehoiakim was made a vassal at that time, but soon proved rebellious.

In 605 B.C. Jerusalem was attacked and Daniel and other captives were taken to Babylon. Cyrus the Great gave Jews permission to return to their homeland in 538 BCE..

The math.
605
538

67 years

Some bible scholars just can't believe that God would make a mistake about a 70 year prophecy that lasted only 66-67 years. They have attributed the missing 3 1/2 years of it's fulfillment to historical error and some have changed the dates. Most bible scholars do agree that the Babylonian captivity/servitude of Israel didn't last 70 years. It lasted between 66 and 67 years. Only 66.5 years of the Babylonian captivity has been fulfilled. That leaves three and a half years of "unfulfilled prophecy." That's the precise length of time the end-time anti-Christ is said to reign in the book of Revelation. I heard Dr. David Jeremiah say that even though the captivity did not last 70 years, "That's close enough!"

Well God doesn't approximate!

The seventy years are not 'accomplished' but will be completely 'fulfilled' in the coming 3 1/2 year reign of the man of sin.

We as Christians believe that Jesus Christ taught that "we must be born again." We also believe that Jesus IS the resurrection.

Saddam Hussein believed he was the god of rebirth and resurrection AND the re-incarnation of Nebuchadnezzar. He idolized Nebuchadnezzar and the Assyrian Empire.

The bible say's that the "man of sin" will recover from a fatal head wound. Saddam's head was nearly removed from his body when he was hung. WE DID NOT GET the right Saddam because there were 4 Saddam's! I just don't believe that the real Saddam would have been found in a hole in the ground with the amount of money he had. I think we found one of his doubles.

I think, as crazy as it sounds, that Saddam will return to fulfill the remaining 3 1/2 years prophecy as the biblical anti-Christ. (who I also believe is the Islamic dajjal). He will unite some of the countries in the Arab/Muslim world currently "in apostasy" (i.e. rebellion) as well as the the Sunni and Shia sects of Islam, (the two horned beast) and form a ten nation Arab/Muslim confederacy (caliphate) the ten horned beast, otherwise know as the kingdom of the anti-Christ. ISIS is waiting for him!

 

[Interplanner]

They were a normal 490 years and Jesus, Josephus and Caiaphas treated them that way; the problem was a rebellion was going to happen that would ruin the country. The great revolt of the 6th decade.