can you identify the king of the south?
ECT Rethinking Eschatology
- Thread starter themuzicman
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genuineoriginal
New member
The belief that the great tribulation is the last 7 years of the 490 year prophecy in Daniel is the wrong one.
I have carefully studied what the Old Testament declares to be the fate of the children of Israel, and the great tribulation of the children of Israel have gone through in the last 1950 years matches every point.
Try reading Leviticus.
Here is a sample:
Leviticus 9:7 7 And Moses said unto Aaron, Go unto the altar, and offer thy sin offering, and thy burnt offering, and make an atonement for thyself, and for the people: and offer the offering of the people, and make an atonement for them; as the Lord commanded. |
You are assuming that the word עוֹלָם only means everlasting in the way that only God can make it.
That is not the only way the word is used in the Bible.
Leviticus 3:17 17 It shall be a perpetual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that ye eat neither fat nor blood. |
Perpetual (everlasting) righteousness in the verse from Daniel 9 means each successive generation of the children of Israel being righteous instead of turning to wickedness.
genuineoriginal
New member
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DANIEL 11 - PROPHECY FULFILLED!
After much fighting and jockeying for position, Alexander's empire was divided into four major portions by 301 BCE: (1) Cassander ruled over Greece, (2) Lysimachus ruled in Asia Minor, (3) Seleucus I Nicator ruled in Babylon and Persia, and (4) Ptolemy I Soter ruled over the Holy Land and Egypt.
Twenty years later (281 BCE), when Seleucus I killed Lysimachus in battle, only two dynasties remained in Alexander's old empire – the Seleucid kings in the north and the Ptolemaic kings in the south.
In 249 BCE, king of the South Ptolemy II Philadelphus sent his daughter Berenice to king of the North Antiochus II Theos. His plan was to stop the war that was raging (the Second Syrian War) and unite the two kingdoms through their marriage. Unfortunately, this plan had a flaw: Antiochus II was already married. However, because he knew his marriage to Ptolemy II's daughter would ensure peace and allow him to regain most of the Syrian possessions his father had lost to the king of the South, Antiochus II put away his wife Laodice and married Berenice. She persuaded him to reject Laodice's children and set up her own to succeed him on the throne.
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Antiochus was the king of the north and Ptolemy was king of the south.DANIEL 11 - PROPHECY FULFILLED!
After much fighting and jockeying for position, Alexander's empire was divided into four major portions by 301 BCE: (1) Cassander ruled over Greece, (2) Lysimachus ruled in Asia Minor, (3) Seleucus I Nicator ruled in Babylon and Persia, and (4) Ptolemy I Soter ruled over the Holy Land and Egypt.
Twenty years later (281 BCE), when Seleucus I killed Lysimachus in battle, only two dynasties remained in Alexander's old empire – the Seleucid kings in the north and the Ptolemaic kings in the south.
In 249 BCE, king of the South Ptolemy II Philadelphus sent his daughter Berenice to king of the North Antiochus II Theos. His plan was to stop the war that was raging (the Second Syrian War) and unite the two kingdoms through their marriage. Unfortunately, this plan had a flaw: Antiochus II was already married. However, because he knew his marriage to Ptolemy II's daughter would ensure peace and allow him to regain most of the Syrian possessions his father had lost to the king of the South, Antiochus II put away his wife Laodice and married Berenice. She persuaded him to reject Laodice's children and set up her own to succeed him on the throne.
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Interplanner
Well-known member
It would be interesting to know your background.
As for the content above, you haven't read the NT. You haven't read Is 53, either.
I know almost no other theme in Romans than the arrival of the righteousness of God, and it is not what transforms a person; rather, it is imputed to them in spite of their works.
The prophecies skip from the ending of the OC Israel to the time of ending of the churches throughout Babylon.
Dan 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
Dan 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
Dan 11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
Dan 11:39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
Dan 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
Dan 11:41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
Dan 11:42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
Dan 11:43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
Dan 11:44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
Dan 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
LA
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Worth a read:
More Than Conquerors
Triumph of the Lamb
Revelation - IGNTC
All that is necessary for the NC has been made ready since the first century. What has to happen is for the leaven to continue expansion through the three measures of the meal, that is, the penetration of the hearts and minds of the nations by the Gospel. The nations must be grafted in (incorporated) into the Israel of God (Gal. 6:16)—the New Testament Church—not into Israel after the flesh (1 Cor. 10:18). For Israel after the flesh is but one of the nations needing to be incorporated into the Israel of God.
AMR
More Than Conquerors
Triumph of the Lamb
Revelation - IGNTC
All that is necessary for the NC has been made ready since the first century. What has to happen is for the leaven to continue expansion through the three measures of the meal, that is, the penetration of the hearts and minds of the nations by the Gospel. The nations must be grafted in (incorporated) into the Israel of God (Gal. 6:16)—the New Testament Church—not into Israel after the flesh (1 Cor. 10:18). For Israel after the flesh is but one of the nations needing to be incorporated into the Israel of God.
AMR
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Interplanner
Well-known member
There are some prophecies in Daniel that have to do with intertestament events, but 8-9 is not one. That's because the 'rebellion that desolates' (later 'abomination that desolates') is part of the 490 period marked in 9. This is why 1st century priests refer to a rebellion that would ruin the entire country; both Josephus and Caiaphas did.
Mt24A is about 1st century Judea as anyone reading from ch 21 can tell. It is about immediate, first-hand, direct instructions about being around those events.
B starts in v29 but a delay was allowed. B is the worldwide judgement of God in which individuals are dealt with; there is nothing about nations in the 2nd coming. See Rom 2, 8, I Cor 15, 2 Pet 3, 2 Tim 4, Heb 9. Nothing about dealing with nations or Israel or both. Of course all nations will be at the judgement but I'm referring to God doing something to Germany or Paraguay or Lebanon.
The two topics must not be mixed. It will be incessant confusion if they are.
Wick Stick
Well-known member
Wait, wait... don't ptolemy yet... I can guess...
are you confused about the abomination?
it clearly came after Jesus
iamaberean
New member
Revelation is about the end of the old covenant, and the bringing in the new.
Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
Interplanner
Well-known member
genuineoriginal
New member
Raised in Baptist and Evangelical churches, indoctrinated in Dispensational Eschatology, then I found God, studied the Bible, and was shown that Dispensational Eschatology was a false representation of God's plan for both the children of Israel and for Christians.
It is a shame that some Christians are taught to be self-centered and believe all of scripture is only about Christians.
genuineoriginal
New member
The writers of Mark and Matthew did not convey the actual words of Jesus regarding the armies that were coming to surround Jerusalem, but concealed them in code phrases, as shown by the words, "let the reader understand."
The writer of Luke wrote the actual words of Jesus instead of the code phrases.
are you going to publish your version of the bible that conveys the actual words of Jesus?
Interplanner
Well-known member
Unless the resolution of the NT about these things is for Christians whether they are Jewish or British, male or female, household employees or masters, etc. Eph 2B-3A, Gal 3. Christ was the Seed, the promises are fulfilled in what he did for us.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Not everyone in NT churches read. This message was for a reader, who read it aloud to the others. Jesus was saying, here is the official interp of Dan 9's AofD. He will be in the temple in the midst of this cataclysm in this generation; get yourselves out of there, out of the country!
why do you think the abomination is a he?
genuineoriginal
New member
The actual words of Jesus are already in the Bible.
They can be seen easily by comparing the three versions of the Olivet Discourse.
In the following verses, the actual words of Jesus are in red, the words that are from the writers of the Gospel and not from Jesus are highlighted, and the actual words of Jesus that were replaced in the other Gospels are underlined.
Matthew 24:15-16 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: ) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: |
Mark 13:14 14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: |
Luke 21:20-21 20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. |
genuineoriginal
New member
The great tribulation is mentioned in the first part of the Olivet Discourse, and is the great exile of the children of Israel from the land of Israel. This great exile began with the destruction of the Temple, just like the Babylonian exile did, but lasts for much longer than the 70 years of the Babylonian exile. It is called the great tribulation because the length of time of the exile is so much greater than the time of the Babylonian exile.