REPORT: God's plan of salvation

OCTOBER23

New member
If you decide not to accept God’s gift, then you will spend eternity

burdened with the debt of your sin and all of its horrible consequences.
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=B A L O N E Y=

YOU ARE TOO JUDGMENTAL AND CONDEMNING

AND DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE SCRIPTURES
 

Shibolet

New member
If you decide not to accept God’s gift, then you will spend eternity burdened with the debt of your sin and all of its horrible consequences.

=B A L O N E Y=

YOU ARE TOO JUDGMENTAL AND CONDEMNING

AND DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE SCRIPTURES

Two points here I would like to share with you: First, how could you talk about eternity as mortals are concerned? One who is born and dies can never be eternal. That's why the reason given for the expulsion of Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden was to prevent them from eating of the tree of life and live forever. (Gen. 3:22,23)

The second point is what you talk about the "debt of one's sin" when Isaiah implies with 1:18,19 that there is no pending debt when one repents of his transgression to the Law and returns to its obedience. Can you add some more to clarify what you really have in mind about sin and eternity? So far, it is not making much sense.
 

journey

New member
Two points here I would like to share with you: First, how could you talk about eternity as mortals are concerned? One who is born and dies can never be eternal. That's why the reason given for the expulsion of Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden was to prevent them from eating of the tree of life and live forever. (Gen. 3:22,23)

The second point is what you talk about the "debt of one's sin" when Isaiah implies with 1:18,19 that there is no pending debt when one repents of his transgression to the Law and returns to its obedience. Can you add some more to clarify what you really have in mind about sin and eternity? So far, it is not making much sense.

There are many more, but here's a couple of samples:

Romans 5:21 KJV That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:23 KJV For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 

Shibolet

New member
There are many more, but here's a couple of samples:

Romans 5:21 KJV That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:23 KJV For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

If you don't mind, I would like to remind you that sin cannot reign unto death because babies die when they have never committed a single sin. They die because they were born and that goes for all human beings.

The gift of God cannot be eternal life because the attribute of eternity could not be shared with man as only God is eternal. Hence, Adam and Eve were banished from the Garden of Eden because they could not eat of the tree of life and live forever. (Gen. 3:22,23) How could the Lord Himself contradict His His own Word?
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
The second point is what you talk about the "debt of one's sin" when Isaiah implies with 1:18,19 that there is no pending debt when one repents of his transgression to the Law and returns to its obedience.

What then was the point of the atonement?

And he shall make an atonement for the holy sanctuary, and he shall make an atonement for the tabernacle of the congregation and for the altar, and he shall make an atonement for the priests and for all the people of the congregation. And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the LORD commanded Moses. (Leviticus 16:33-34)​
 

journey

New member
If you don't mind, I would like to remind you that sin cannot reign unto death because babies die when they have never committed a single sin. They die because they were born and that goes for all human beings.

The gift of God cannot be eternal life because the attribute of eternity could not be shared with man as only God is eternal. Hence, Adam and Eve were banished from the Garden of Eden because they could not eat of the tree of life and live forever. (Gen. 3:22,23) How could the Lord Himself contradict His His own Word?

Wrong. Christians do not spend eternal life in this body of flesh and bones, rather in a glorified body provided by God at His appointed time. If I physically die today, my spirit is absent from the body and present with the Lord. You deny that Jesus Christ is God, so we really have nothing in common to talk about. Start by reading the New Testament, especially the Epistles of Paul.
 

Shibolet

New member
What then was the point of the atonement?

And he shall make an atonement for the holy sanctuary, and he shall make an atonement for the tabernacle of the congregation and for the altar, and he shall make an atonement for the priests and for all the people of the congregation. And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the LORD commanded Moses. (Leviticus 16:33-34)​

All these atonements were shadows for the final atonement of the Scapegoat which would be Israel for Judah. It was all symbolized in Psalm 78:67-69 when the Lord Divinely rejected Israel the kingdom of the North so that Judah be Divinely confirmed to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jer. 31:35-37) That's when lots were thrown between Israel and Judah and the decision fell upon Israel to atone for Judah because the Lord had promised David that his Tribe aka Judah would remain as God's People. (I Kings 11:36)
 

Shibolet

New member
Wrong. Christians do not spend eternal life in this body of flesh and bones, rather in a glorified body provided by God at His appointed time. If I physically die today, my spirit is absent from the body and present with the Lord. You deny that Jesus Christ is God, so we really have nothing in common to talk about. Start by reading the New Testament, especially the Epistles of Paul.

I think I read the NT more than you do. Otherwise, how could I challenge Christians if I have not read their book? But believe me, I wouldn't be here if I had not found out in the NT that the Pauline method to replace the Jewish Theology by using a Jew was not the foundation of the NT. It just happens that no one has what it takes to persuade me of the contrary.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
That's when lots were thrown between Israel and Judah and the decision fell upon Israel to atone for Judah...

Christ is the Azazel who atoned for God's firstborn son so that all Israel can be saved.

And so all Israel shall be saved as it is written there shall come out of Zion the Deliverer and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob, for this is my covenant unto them when I shall take away their sins. (Romans 11:26-27)​
 

Shibolet

New member
Christ is the Azazel who atoned for God's firstborn son so that all Israel can be saved.

And so all Israel shall be saved as it is written there shall come out of Zion the Deliverer and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob, for this is my covenant unto them when I shall take away their sins. (Romans 11:26-27)​

Christ is a Greek word which means the anointed one of the Lord aka the Messiah. (Habak. 3:13) "To go to azazel" is an analogy with "to go to hell." Literally, azazel was meant to be the desert. The end of the desert eastward was Assyria. When Israel was Divinely rejected he was conquered by the Assyrians and transferred to Assyria and from there they got lost for good. Only 10% of Israel was saved when they joined Judah in the South. That's it. There is no more "shall be saved." They are lost forever. Today, to join Judah they must convert just like any of the Gentiles.

No one can take the sins of another away but only the sinner himself when he or she repents and returns to the obedience of God's Law. (Isa. 1:18,19; Ezek. 18:20)
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
"To go to azazel" is an analogy with "to go to hell."

For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Psalm 16:10)​

The Azazel wasn't killed by man, he was let go to his place in the wilderness.

And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place and the tabernacle of the congregation and the altar, he shall bring the live goat and Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness.

And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited, and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness. (Leviticus 16:20-22)​

The wilderness refers to an uninhabited place. The ultimate uninhabited place is the grave. No one lives there.
 

Shibolet

New member
1 - For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Psalm 16:10)

2 - The Azazel wasn't killed by man, he was let go to his place in the wilderness.

3 - And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place and the tabernacle of the congregation and the altar, he shall bring the live goat and Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness.

4 - And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited, and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness. (Leviticus 16:20-22)

The wilderness refers to an uninhabited place. The ultimate uninhabited place is the grave. No one lives there.

1 - No Jamie, you did not understand me. "To go to hell" is a similar statement akin to get rid of some one or some thing.

2 - Exactly!

3 - Since Israel was the Scapegoat, he was banished to azazel towards the East to atone for the sins of Judah aka the new Israel.

4 - This atonement was not meant physical death but only a Divine rejection to last forever. (Psalm 78:67-69) The physical death happened only in the type level of the analogy with the animals. But in the archetype level, the Scapegoat did not have to be bloodily sacrificed. BTW, another analogy was in the binding of Isaac. Only the binding as there was no real sacrifice but of the ram caught in the bush.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
They shall come with weeping and with supplications will I lead them. I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way wherein they shall not stumble for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations and declare it in the isles afar off and say, "He that scattered Israel will gather him and keep him as a shepherd doth his flock." (Jeremiah 31:9-10)

"Is Ephraim my dear son? Is he a pleasant child? For since I spake against him I do earnestly remember him still, therefore my bowels are troubled for him, I will surely have mercy upon him," saith the LORD. (Jeremiah 31:20)​
 

journey

New member
I think I read the NT more than you do. Otherwise, how could I challenge Christians if I have not read their book? But believe me, I wouldn't be here if I had not found out in the NT that the Pauline method to replace the Jewish Theology by using a Jew was not the foundation of the NT. It just happens that no one has what it takes to persuade me of the contrary.

You need to read it again because you obviously don't understand or believe it. What you believe does not effect the reality of Jesus Christ and the Cross. Jesus Christ was and is God, the Messiah. Jesus Christ died on the Cross for the sins of mankind so that Salvation could be offered as a precious GIFT for those who believe and have faith. This is what God's Word bluntly teaches, so what you deny is not material to REALITY.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
And the LORD God said, "Behold, the man is become as one of us to know good and evil..." (Genesis 3:22)​

What more needs to be said?
 

Shibolet

New member
They shall come with weeping and with supplications will I lead them. I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way wherein they shall not stumble for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations and declare it in the isles afar off and say, "He that scattered Israel will gather him and keep him as a shepherd doth his flock." (Jeremiah 31:9-10)

"Is Ephraim my dear son? Is he a pleasant child? For since I spake against him I do earnestly remember him still, therefore my bowels are troubled for him, I will surely have mercy upon him," saith the LORD. (Jeremiah 31:20)​

And all the above had its fulfillment in Ezekiel 37:22 when the Lord gathered under the same flock about 10% of Ephraim that escaped from Assyria and joined Judah in the South when both peoples became one only kingdom and, with them aka the House of Israel and the House of Judah the Lord established His New Covenant. (Jer. 31:31)
 

Shibolet

New member
You need to read it again because you obviously don't understand or believe it. What you believe does not effect the reality of Jesus Christ and the Cross. Jesus Christ was and is God, the Messiah. Jesus Christ died on the Cross for the sins of mankind so that Salvation could be offered as a precious GIFT for those who believe and have faith. This is what God's Word bluntly teaches, so what you deny is not material to REALITY.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

The differences between our realities is that yours is not Jewish, albeit you are using a Jew to promote it. Your reality is based on the Greek reality of Hellenism and mine is based on the Faith of Jesus which was Judaism.

You have quoted above the gospel of Paul which was Hellenistic. It doesn't go with the Jewish reality of the Faith of Jesus.

You have quoted I Cor. 15:1-4 and I have a question about the last verse: It says that Jesus rose according to the Scriptures. What Scriptures if the NT was written 50+ years after Jesus had been gone? It must be the Jewish Scriptures. If so, would you be able to quote to me where in the Jewish Scriptures I can read that Jesus rose from the dead on the third day? If you have an answer to me, I will take my hat off and pay homage to your understanding which is indeed superior to mine.
 

Shibolet

New member
And the LORD God said, "Behold, the man is become as one of us to know good and evil..." (Genesis 3:22)​

What more needs to be said?

To banish man from the Garden of Eden so that he would not eat from the tree of life and live forever. Did you miss that in the same verse? That's the reason why no one can have eternal life.
 

Ben Masada

New member
They shall come with weeping and with supplications will I lead them. I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way wherein they shall not stumble for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations and declare it in the isles afar off and say, "He that scattered Israel will gather him and keep him as a shepherd doth his flock." (Jeremiah 31:9-10)

"Is Ephraim my dear son? Is he a pleasant child? For since I spake against him I do earnestly remember him still, therefore my bowels are troubled for him, I will surely have mercy upon him," saith the LORD. (Jeremiah 31:20)​

But it had to be either Judah or Israel. Both had rejected God's Covenant made with them, and the Lord had promised David that He would keep his Tribe as a lamp in Jerusalem forever. (I Kings 11:36) So, lots were cast over the two goats and Israel was the one chosen as the Scapegoat to make atonement for Judah so that he could remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jer. 31:35-37) So, Israel was taken to Assyria on an endless exile and Judah to Babylon for 70 years. At the end of those 70 years, the whole Land of Israel became of Judah only and up to this day. (Ezek. 37:22)
 

Omniskeptical

Active member
But it had to be either Judah or Israel. Both had rejected God's Covenant made with them, and the Lord had promised David that He would keep his Tribe as a lamp in Jerusalem forever. (I Kings 11:36) So, lots were cast over the two goats and Israel was the one chosen as the Scapegoat to make atonement for Judah so that he could remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jer. 31:35-37) So, Israel was taken to Assyria on an endless exile and Judah to Babylon for 70 years. At the end of those 70 years, the whole Land of Israel became of Judah only and up to this day. (Ezek. 37:22)
Bull crap. Israel would not be assimilated by the will of God. Your hypothesis (and that is all it is) is obsurd.
 
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