Real Science Friday: The Best Astronomy DVD Ever Made

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patman

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I don't watch videos on message boards as a rule. Just tell me what you think the best arguments are (or all of them, if you like). And we'll go from there.



If so, too bad for them. But tell me what you think is most persuasive about the video, and the evidence for it.

Barbarian, you need to pay more attention to whats going on before you talk. The people I am giving a hard time to are saying the DVD is teaches things it does not. They do this because they have never watched it. I think it is worth pointing out that one should be familiar with the content of what they are criticizing.
 

The Barbarian

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Barbarian, you need to pay more attention to whats going on before you talk. The people I am giving a hard time to are saying the DVD is teaches things it does not. They do this because they have never watched it. I think it is worth pointing out that one should be familiar with the content of what they are criticizing.

And you're unable to summarize the arguments therein because...?

Help us out here. Why can't you do that? Just making the assertion isn't going to help, unless you tell us what's in it.
 

Dr.Watson

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I think it is worth pointing out that one should be familiar with the content of what they are criticizing.

How familiar do you think young earth creationists are with evolutionary biology, geology or astro-physics? Can you even name a single young earth creationist with a Ph.D. in any one of those subjects? What level, and area, of education does the person who produced this DVD have? Incase you don't know, Spike Psarris has a bachelor's degree in electrical engineering and used to work as an electrical engineer in the U.S. Military (cue the muted trumpets).

Wow. Talk about being a hypocrite.
 

The Barbarian

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How familiar do you think young earth creationists are with evolutionary biology, geology or astro-physics? Can you even name a single young earth creationist with a Ph.D. in any one of those subjects?

Kurt Wise and Harold Coffin come to mind. But patman wouldn't like them very much.
 

Dr.Watson

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Kurt Wise and Harold Coffin come to mind. But patman wouldn't like them very much.

Of course. Both freely admit that their religious views aren't supported by the evidence. And, that if it weren't for their religious views, they would have no trouble admitting that these "naturalistic" formation theories are very strongly supported by the evidence.
 

patman

Active member
Fascinating, for one you assume I only saw two chapters despite more than that being available to view for free and I think I even commented on points in more than two of the chapters...

No assumptions here, because you said:
There are after all a few chapters which are available to view for free, I cannot watch the rest of it without paying.

Emphasis added. Two chapters is all he makes available! You must be stretching the truth...



Second of all your reasoning unless you have left something out would mean someone who watched 104.5 minutes of the video would not be allowed to comment because they hadn't watched the last 30 seconds which might contain all their earth shattering argument.

No. Because I said:

Your opinion doesn't matter until you have seen a majority of the film
....

You have no way to be able to say that when you've missed a majority of the video. You are just guessing and being prejudice, I might add.

I said it to you twice in one post.


And regardless if the first 23 minutes is an argument from ignorance why can't I say that he relies heavily on arguments from ignorance? I'd have thought approximately ~1/5 of the time spent would qualify for use of the term heavily relies.

Why don't you give an example of an argument from ignorance? By all means. You aren't able to follow our simple dialog, I doubt you were keeping up with his.

But to answer the question, YOU CAN'T say it because YOU DON'T know! Why is that so hard to get? You don't know! You never saw it. You lack the knowledge. You are uninformed. You are void of data. I need a thesaurus, because surely one way or another I will get it through you head that you just don't know.

I do because he signposts and labels his chapters, if he comes back to those points later it is hidden within a chapter not dedicated to such and would be a stupid structuring of the video.

That doesn't give you the magical ability to foresee the rest of the DVD. All you are qualified to assert is what you know he said... assumptions are only your imagination at work.

You can make assumptions all you want but at least be grown up enough to admit you don't really know what you are talking about.

Pot meet kettle. I'm consistent with how I judge things, I'd be extremely surprise if you everything in life the way you expect me to treat this video. But calls for special treatment of creationists is nothing new.Isn't that what I commented on in the first place? Didn't I specifically point out examples of what I was talking about?

Pot meet kettle... wow. I have never been less offended in my life because the source of the comment has lost all credibility.

I hope you don't work as a scientist or in the medical field. If this is how you come to conclusions then look out world. Tyrathca is on a mission to get minimal information and draw drastic conclusions.

Why not actually put forward a comment based on what I criticised rather than continuing your ridiculous rant about whether or not I can criticise?

Didn't you see the end of the last post to you?

You could just admit your ignorance... I keep pointing it out, and you keep covering it with excuses. You may call it a rant, I call it a big embarrassment for you. More than once you admitted that despite ample ignorance on a subject you are still qualified to make reliable remarks against the it.

The quote above, when you said "I'm consistent with how I judge things, I'd be extremely surprise if you everything in life the way you expect me to treat this video," says it all. You are consistent in your judgments, and you are consistent with your prejudice...
 

patman

Active member
How familiar do you think young earth creationists are with evolutionary biology, geology or astro-physics? Can you even name a single young earth creationist with a Ph.D. in any one of those subjects? What level, and area, of education does the person who produced this DVD have? Incase you don't know, Spike Psarris has a bachelor's degree in electrical engineering and used to work as an electrical engineer in the U.S. Military (cue the muted trumpets).

Wow. Talk about being a hypocrite.

Dr.Watson, You don't know me. You are proving yourself to be prejudice like the other atheist in this thread. Note, not all atheist are prejudice, but so far you and Tyrathca have shown yourselves well.

I believe in evolution on some level happens. I think evolution happens in large steps. I believe God made animals with the ability to evolve. I think modern evidence shows evolution can happen fast, which leads me to think life was designed that way (For example, I think "Junk DNA" will show "spare parts" that an organism can use in times of trouble - which I believe was put there by God as a means of survival). I am also a young earth creationist. Bet you didn't see that coming.

Before you point out my lack of qualifications as a scientist let me do it for you. I am not a scientist. I don't go around telling people to follow my personal theory, nor do I present it as fact. If it is interesting to someone than so be it, if not, fine. I just leave it at what it is, an idea. I'll stop with that disclaimer in place.

I don't discuss this often. I only said it to you to show how prejudice you are. This is another example of why you should get more information about a subject before you decide to criticize it.

Hypocrites
The "Wow. Talk about being a hypocrite," remark is fun. Spike doesn't use his own scientific findings once in the video! He quotes other scientists and never makes up a lie or twists the truth about the modern understanding.

I he speaks the truth, quotes sources, and offers his own opinions, where do you find fault? What grounds am I a hypocrite to appreciate his video? Where is he a hypocrite?
 

Granite

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Dr.Watson, You don't know me. You are proving yourself to be prejudice like the other atheist in this thread. Note, not all atheist are prejudice, but so far you and Tyrathca have shown yourselves well.

I believe in evolution on some level happens. I think evolution happens in large steps. I believe God made animals with the ability to evolve. I think modern evidence shows evolution can happen fast, which leads me to think life was designed that way (For example, I think "Junk DNA" will show "spare parts" that an organism can use in times of trouble - which I believe was put there by God as a means of survival). I am also a young earth creationist. Bet you didn't see that coming.

Before you point out my lack of qualifications as a scientist let me do it for you. I am not a scientist. I don't go around telling people to follow my personal theory, nor do I present it as fact. If it is interesting to someone than so be it, if not, fine. I just leave it at what it is, an idea. I'll stop with that disclaimer in place.

Hypocrites
The "Wow. Talk about being a hypocrite," remark is fun. Spike doesn't use his own scientific findings once in the video! He quotes other scientists and never makes up a lie or twists the truth about the modern understanding.

I he speaks the truth, quotes sources, and offers his own opinions, where do you find fault? What grounds am I a hypocrite to appreciate his video? Where is he a hypocrite?

It's worth pointing out you didn't answer his questions at all.
 

Granite

New member
Hall of Fame
Fine. Many are not PH.D's...

Glad we cleared that up?

Glad I didn't really have to pull teeth to get a straight answer. Thanks.:cheers:

But really, this is no surprise or secret. The "qualifications" creationism's "experts" bring to the table are often inflated, embellished, or non-existent.
 

GuySmiley

Well-known member
And you're unable to summarize the arguments therein because...?

Help us out here. Why can't you do that? Just making the assertion isn't going to help, unless you tell us what's in it.
This thread, in fact this particular forum, is dedicated to discussing the contents of a show. Its optional for you to be here, btw. Instead of demanding a summary, you could just listen, and then join in the conversation. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to watch videos or listen to shows linked on TOL. I mostly use the same policy for myself. But then I think you shouldn't take part in the conversation either.
 

The Barbarian

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Polar bears, for example, evolved from grizzly bears in about 10,000 years.

An new anatomical feature in some Adriatic island lizards occurred in a few decades when they were tranferred to a different island.

Stuff like that.

A few million years for new genera, most likely. Pretty fast in geologic terms.
 

patman

Active member
But some are. What do we get for everyone we name?

I know there are some :) By all means, give us a list and the modern scientist and their contributions to the study of origins, and I'd be very happy to save it for future reference.
 

patman

Active member
How fast? Please provide some citations to the scientific literature, not just your "belief". Thanks.

No. You have wasted enough of my time... the ONLY reason I mentioned it was to show the prejudice that is rancid here.

If you are what you seem to be, someone who is current with the findings of evolution, you should be familiar with some animals that are evolving right in front of our very eyes.

Since you don't know you'll have look it up yourself.
 

patman

Active member
Glad I didn't really have to pull teeth to get a straight answer. Thanks.:cheers:

But really, this is no surprise or secret. The "qualifications" creationism's "experts" bring to the table are often inflated, embellished, or non-existent.

Granite, we are discussing a DVD that, in part, presents holes in the theories on our solar system's evolution. I don't think we need to be experts just to discuss, do you? This isn't to prove a hypothesis... ya know what I mean?

Do you think college students have to be doctors before they write a thesis on a particular topic? Sometimes the research speaks for itself.
 

Jukia

New member
No. You have wasted enough of my time... the ONLY reason I mentioned it was to show the prejudice that is rancid here.

If you are what you seem to be, someone who is current with the findings of evolution, you should be familiar with some animals that are evolving right in front of our very eyes.

Since you don't know you'll have look it up yourself.

What, is it a secret? Obviously you have no desire, or perhaps ability, to provide the information. Perhaps however, you really know that whatever information you provide will be worthless.

By the way one of the ways to overcome prejudice, rancid or otherwise, is to get the facts out in the open. One would think a follower of Christ would want to do that. After all, the truth should make people pay attention.
 

patman

Active member
By the way one of the ways to overcome prejudice, rancid or otherwise, is to get the facts out in the open. One would think a follower of Christ would want to do that. After all, the truth should make people pay attention.

Jukia, your not pushing your problem with prejudice on me.
 
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