Praying football coach creates a mess
- Thread starter Jose Fly
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Quetzal
New member
Fair enough. :cheers:
shagster01
New member
In Bremerton, WA, there's this high school football coach, Joe Kennedy, who would lead the team in prayer after games. The FFRF complained, and the Superintendent of the school issued a statement saying the the coach is a good guy, just didn't realize he was breaking the law, and had agreed to stop leading prayers at school events.
But then the coach consulted with the Liberty Institute (after the ACLJ turned him down) and they advised him to go ahead and lead the team in prayer anyways. So he did. The school then said they were "negotiating" with the coach and his legal team. Well, now it's getting messy...
The coach is now suing the school for "refusing to let him pray". Anyone wanna take bets on how well that will go? :chuckle:
To add fuel to the fire, the Satanic Temple of Seattle is going to be at the next game and attempt to pray on the field alongside the coach. This was at the request of a student at the school. Here is what the Satanists have said...
Get some popcorn....this is going to be entertaining!opcorn:
This is stupid. Let them man pray. It's voluntary.
As for the Church of Satan coming. . . Why do I get the sneaking suspicion that the student who requested it isn't even on the football team? I do disagree with them coming in. They are not a part of the team. If a Satanist student wants to pray on the 50 and others choose to join him, that's fine. But you can't invite outside religious leaders to come in.
Jose Fly
New member
No, they would only be discriminating against him if they allowed employees from other faiths to do this, but not him.
And Jesus said, "“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."
Now, which do you think this coach is most closely following....praying for a public spectacle like the hypocrites, or praying they way Jesus Christ instructed? :think:
Jose Fly
New member
No one said he can't pray. The school is just saying he needs to not pray in such an attention-grabbing way that will be perceived by many as an attempt to influence players' beliefs.
Doesn't matter. And it was students and teachers who requested the Church of Satan to attend.
Why not? What's the legal difference?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
on the other hand you could look at it this way
it's the end of the game, and people - including (gasp) government employees - are pretty much free to do whatever they want - if they want to do a happy dance because they've won, they're free to do so, if they want to dump the cooler of Gatorade over the coach's head, they're free to do so, if they want to stand there talking to their neighbors, they're free to do so
and if they want to face mecca and pray to allah, they're free to do so
as long as they're not forcing anybody to join them
except this coach
because he's a Christian
and the constitution says that Christians can't pray in public if they work for the government
Jose Fly
New member
Nope. As the statement from the school noted, he is still on paid government time.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
so he's not free to join in the things that aren't strictly spelled out in his job description?
if he lets the kids dump the Gatorade over his head, is that an inappropriate use of government paid time?
how about if he offers to repay the district for the amount of time he used for prayer? then he'd be off the clock
what if he did it on his break? do coaches get a break (and lunch) when they're working a game?
how about if he let his brother (who is not a school district employee) go out on the field and lead the prayer?
would that be ok?
could he join him, especially if others were?
Or maybe it's discriminating against all faiths, needlessly.
Right. The point being they pray to be seen. Importantly, this falls on the heels of:
“Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Matthew 6:1
To be seen, not, lest you be seen. What God is concerned about here is the why of what we do in both cases.
Can't say without knowing his heart. So that will be between him and God. Maybe he only wants the reward of recognizing God publicly and the witness that attends it. If so, that's a great reward in and of itself.
Jose Fly
New member
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
how about if he let his brother (who is not a school district employee) go out on the field and lead the prayer?
would that be ok?
could he join him, especially if others were?
genuineoriginal
New member
Telling him that he cannot show any visible signs of being a Christian is discrimination against him because he is a Christian.
If the school is also discriminating against other faiths then they would also have the right to sue the school.
Jose Fly
New member
Or maybe it's following the law.
And this coach going out to the middle of the field to pray seems very much an attempt to be seen. Otherwise, why not just lower his head on the sideline and do a silent prayer? Why the need to go out to the middle of the field, if not to be seen?
And that captures why this is illegal. School employees are not supposed to be "witnessing" while at work.
Jose Fly
New member
What do you mean, "let his brother"? Is he his supervisor or something? If not, his brother is acting as a private citizen and thus isn't subject to the same regulations as a government employee.
Not if he's at work.
Jose Fly
New member
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
no, like i said, he's not school district employee (should have made it clear, he's not a government employee)
so his brother could go out on the field and lead a prayer that anybody would be welcome to join in :thumb:
game's over, he's off the clock :idunno:
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
that seems to be jo's position :idunno:
not sure why he doesn't recognize the discrimination at play
no, wait
i'm pretty sure why
genuineoriginal
New member
You need to pay more attention.
Here are two posts from this thread quoting the news that show that he was told he is not allowed to show any visible sign that he is a Christian:
Jose Fly
New member
That's not what the school district said. According to them, he's still on paid time, which fits with my high school sports experience (the post-game stuff would go on for about an hour or so after the game was over).
genuineoriginal
New member
If he is still on paid time, then their actions are discrimination against him just because he is a Christian.