ECT "Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth" - The Catholic Church

God's Truth

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No you don't.
You reject the truth every time it is presented to you. You need to pray to the Holy Spirit to open you up to hearing the truth because as of now you reject truth and repeat lies.

You need to get Jesus' teachings and obey him instead of your false denomination.
 

Trump Gurl

Domine, quo vadis?

A brief excerpt from "Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth"
(
source link):

QUOTE:


Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today’s Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)

Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history.

Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established.

The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s divine origin. It must be more than a merely human organization, especially considering that its human members— even some of its leaders—have been unwise, corrupt, or prone to heresy.

Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church’s leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.

FOUR MARKS OF THE TRUE CHURCH

If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of his Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.

The Church Is One (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13)
Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches. The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23–32). Jesus can have but one spouse, and his spouse is the Catholic Church. His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2). Over the centuries, as doctrines are examined more fully, the Church comes to understand them more deeply (John 16:12–13), but it never understands them to mean the opposite of what they once meant.

The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25–27, Rev. 19:7–8)
By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn’t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23). But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).

The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19–20, Rev. 5:9–10)
Jesus’ Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. 28:19–20). For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28). Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19). The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius’s time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.

The Church Is Apostolic (Eph. 2:19–20)
The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2). These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness of sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory, Mary’s special role, and much more —even the doctrine of apostolic succession itself. Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No other Church can make that claim.

Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth

Man’s ingenuity cannot account for this. The Church has remained one, holy, catholic, and apostolic—not through man’s effort, but because God preserves the Church he established (Matt. 16:18, 28:20). He guided the Israelites on their escape from Egypt by giving them a pillar of fire to light their way across the dark wilderness (Exod. 13:21). Today he guides us through his Catholic Church.

The Bible, sacred Tradition, and the writings of the earliest Christians testify that the Church teaches with Jesus’ authority. In this age of countless competing religions, each clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: the Catholic Church, which the Bible calls "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).

Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, the popes and the bishops, "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). Jesus promised to guide his Church into all truth (John 16:12–13). We can have confidence that his Church teaches only the truth.


END EXCERPT QUOTE



This OP still has never been refuted. That is the way it will remain until somebody new shows up in this thread.
 

KerimF

New member
Here are three of my experiences with the Catholic Church:

[1] When I was a teen student at a Catholic school, I noticed some important differences when I compared what are known as Church’s teachings (taught at school) and Jesus ones on the Gospel. So I had to ask, in a private meeting, each of the priests, whom I used respecting, about this dilemma; to me in the least. The various replies that I got from them were somehow similar and say something like:
"If we preach, openly and in our Churches, Jesus teachings exactly and clearly as Jesus does on the Gospel, most of our Christian subjects will likely leave the Church and stop funding it, for good. And this would be a great loss of support for the Church to go on in its vocation".

[2] When I was studying at the university, I joined the young teachers of Catechism in my city. On a Sunday, the subject was about Trinity. So I told my teen students that God, as revealed by Jesus, refers to the One Will/Power of our Father in Heaven and Jesus, unified, since before Creation, by the divine spirit of Love, the Holy Spirit. And I liked giving them a practical analogy by asking them if there are two real friends in the classroom. To my big surprise, almost all students pointed to two of their colleagues. So, I asked the two friends: How did others notice your real friendship? One of them replied: “We take always one decision only in each situation, as if we were just one person.”
But, at that time, there was a supervisor who was hearing me while he stood at a dark corner :) When the class was over, he came to me and said:
"You were supposed to give the students an analogy approved by the Catholic Church; as of the triangle or the sun. But you didn't. So I would like you know that we don't need your services here anymore."

[3] When I was about 30, I thought that it is better for me to be a priest. Since the Church of my family is Roman Catholic, my first meeting was with the patriarch of the city. After he knew that my intent is to preach Jesus sayings accurately and clearly as Jesus did, he was sincere and told me that the role of his priests is just to organize and celebrate various religious ceremonies as funerals, marriages, baptisms... etc. He advised me to join the Jesuit Church which is interested in the Bible studies. I followed his advice and I had a meeting with a Jesuit priest. Naturally, we started, in this meeting, with ‘Poverty, Chastity, and Obedience’.
About Poverty; I used working for my daily bread only.
About Chastity; I was, as I am now, never interested in living a sexual relation of any sort.
About Obedience; it is obvious to me always that a newcomer should obey some elders before being obeyed, in turn, by the future newcomers :)
But, when the Jesuit priest knew my main reason of being a priest, he commented (actually insisted) that I should preach the teachings of the Church and not of Jesus as written on the Gospel. And he asked me to leave and pray for a while, in order to find out if being a Catholic priest is really my vocation or not. So I told him: “You are right, I will surely ask Jesus if He doesn't mind that I leave Him in order to be accepted in a formal Christian Church, Catholic or else”.
 

Trump Gurl

Domine, quo vadis?
Here are three of my experiences with the Catholic Church:

[1] When I was a teen student at a Catholic school, I noticed some important differences when I compared what are known as Church’s teachings (taught at school) and Jesus ones on the Gospel. So I had to ask, in a private meeting, each of the priests, whom I used respecting, about this dilemma; to me in the least. The various replies that I got from them were somehow similar and say something like:
"If we preach, openly and in our Churches, Jesus teachings exactly and clearly as Jesus does on the Gospel, most of our Christian subjects will likely leave the Church and stop funding it, for good. And this would be a great loss of support for the Church to go on in its vocation".

[2] When I was studying at the university, I joined the young teachers of Catechism in my city. On a Sunday, the subject was about Trinity. So I told my teen students that God, as revealed by Jesus, refers to the One Will/Power of our Father in Heaven and Jesus, unified, since before Creation, by the divine spirit of Love, the Holy Spirit. And I liked giving them a practical analogy by asking them if there are two real friends in the classroom. To my big surprise, almost all students pointed to two of their colleagues. So, I asked the two friends: How did others notice your real friendship? One of them replied: “We take always one decision only in each situation, as if we were just one person.”
But, at that time, there was a supervisor who was hearing me while he stood at a dark corner :) When the class was over, he came to me and said:
"You were supposed to give the students an analogy approved by the Catholic Church; as of the triangle or the sun. But you didn't. So I would like you know that we don't need your services here anymore."

[3] When I was about 30, I thought that it is better for me to be a priest. Since the Church of my family is Roman Catholic, my first meeting was with the patriarch of the city. After he knew that my intent is to preach Jesus sayings accurately and clearly as Jesus did, he was sincere and told me that the role of his priests is just to organize and celebrate various religious ceremonies as funerals, marriages, baptisms... etc. He advised me to join the Jesuit Church which is interested in the Bible studies. I followed his advice and I had a meeting with a Jesuit priest. Naturally, we started, in this meeting, with ‘Poverty, Chastity, and Obedience’.
About Poverty; I used working for my daily bread only.
About Chastity; I was, as I am now, never interested in living a sexual relation of any sort.
About Obedience; it is obvious to me always that a newcomer should obey some elders before being obeyed, in turn, by the future newcomers :)
But, when the Jesuit priest knew my main reason of being a priest, he commented (actually insisted) that I should preach the teachings of the Church and not of Jesus as written on the Gospel. And he asked me to leave and pray for a while, in order to find out if being a Catholic priest is really my vocation or not. So I told him: “You are right, I will surely ask Jesus if He doesn't mind that I leave Him in order to be accepted in a formal Christian Church, Catholic or else”.


Annecdotal personal experiences have nothing to do with the truth of the OP, you do understand that, right?
 

KerimF

New member
Annecdotal personal experiences have nothing to do with the truth of the OP, you do understand that, right?

I am sorry; I didn't imagine that, from your personal experiences, you also discovered that you can trust certain persons only (directly or via 'their' holy books) in whatever they present/approve as real and/or true.

And since I am not among your chosen references, as you said, I, being a rational man, have to remember always that you, as many others (because this is not my first or last experience about this fact) cannot allow yourself to learn anything new (or update your knowledge about certain points) from whatever I may say or explain.

After all, if Jesus, who did many miracles, knew in advance that ‘only rare people’ in the world will take his sayings seriously in their daily life, how could I expect that even one person in the world may learn anything from me?! I am not rich, famous or powerful (with a high privileged position as... you know :D ).

By the way, I wonder what could be the main truth of the OP (in few words, I hope). Thank you.
 

truechristian

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This OP still has never been refuted. That is the way it will remain until somebody new shows up in this thread.

Pillar of Lies, Pillar of Blasphemies - that is the history of the pagan catholic church since its foundation by Simon Magus who just like all those evil popes through history realised that promising people a quick route out of an imaginary purgatory to heaven would be a money spinner.
There's 1.3 billion walking dead catholics on Earth right now and at least turned to dust in graves.
Every catholic who has ever twiddle rosary and prayed to the dead Mary are doomed.
Most of those will be resurrected on Judgment Day to learn there is no place in the Millennium for worshippers of idols of Ishtar.
 

God's Truth

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Pillar of Lies, Pillar of Blasphemies - that is the history of the pagan catholic church since its foundation by Simon Magus who just like all those evil popes through history realised that promising people a quick route out of an imaginary purgatory to heaven would be a money spinner.
There's 1.3 billion walking dead catholics on Earth right now and at least turned to dust in graves.
Every catholic who has ever twiddle rosary and prayed to the dead Mary are doomed.
Most of those will be resurrected on Judgment Day to learn there is no place in the Millennium for worshippers of idols of Ishtar.

People who die and have never heard the truth have a chance to believe and repent.
 

KerimF

New member
To those who read my post #267 and don't mind being sincere here, I like asking the following question:

Do you know any Christian Church or Denomination whose men in charge are brave enough to preach openly 'all' Jesus Christ sayings exactly as He does on the today's Gospel?

Here are some examples which came in mind now:

[1] "Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead."
As you see, Jesus Christ didn't say instead... Go honour your father by joining his funeral then follow me.
Jesus reminds his disciples clearly that a funeral could be made in any name but Him. But this doesn't prevent any Church in the world to call its funerals... Christian funerals.

[2] "It is easier for a camel/rope to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."
Isn't this saying a taboo :) The reason is simple. How could a well-organised Church or Denomination be run properly if the men in charge of it don't have special privileges provided by the continuous support of some rich donators?!

[3] "Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he."
Let us see why it is another taboo :)
For which reason John the Baptist is great?
He is great because his role in life was very important; he was preparing the Jews/Israelis in his time for the recent coming of Jesus among them.
But Jesus is also clear that John the Baptist is the greatest prophet. This implies that John's role is also the greatest... and... all previous prophets didn't have a greater role/mission than the preparation of Jesus coming...
At last, Jesus, the Living Word of God Himself, came to reveal the final updated version of every truth; starting from God's image (The One Will/Power of the Father in Heaven and Jesus, unified, since before Creation, by the divine Spirit of Love, the Holy Spirit/Ghost).

[4] "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law."
Here is also a taboo :) Jesus gave a solid proof that what is known as World's Peace can never exist. By design (the way God created the world), peace, even among the members of one family, can hardly exist though they likely share the same language, same culture and the same environment. So the lesson I got from this saying is: When I hear someone talking in public about the world peace, I can be sure that he is one of two: ignorant (lack of complete knowledge) of the world's reality or a clever deceiver trying to justify certain decisions and/or doings.
 

God's Truth

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To those who read my post #267 and don't mind being sincere here, I like asking the following question:

Do you know any Christian Church or Denomination whose men in charge are brave enough to preach openly 'all' Jesus Christ sayings exactly as He does on the today's Gospel?

Here are some examples which came in mind now:

[1] "Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead."
As you see, Jesus Christ didn't say instead... Go honour your father by joining his funeral then follow me.
Jesus reminds his disciples clearly that a funeral could be made in any name but Him. But this doesn't prevent any Church in the world to call its funerals... Christian funerals.
You have ventured out of the realm of the truth that Jesus was preaching.

Jesus said let the dead bury the dead because Jesus, the RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE was standing there in front of him, but he wanted to go bury his father at a funeral.

Jesus isn't speaking against a "Christian funeral" and burying your parents!

Jesus was speaking against the man who was taking off and leaving him to bury his father---leaving Christ who could raise his father.

[2] "It is easier for a camel/rope to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."
Isn't this saying a taboo :) The reason is simple. How could a well-organised Church or Denomination be run properly if the men in charge of it don't have special privileges provided by the continuous support of some rich donators?!

Real churches as in the new testament times are in people's homes, not in a big building with rich pastors.
 
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