Paul is MISUNDERSTOOD!

daqq

Well-known member
I am not sure I understand all that you are saying here. Maybe you could explain it more to me?

All the meaning is supernal, or "spiritual", and concerns our walk, and it is based in the Testimony of Messiah. You can see the four generations in several places in the Gospel accounts also, such as follows:

Matthew 12:36-45 KJV
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation
[1] seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation,
[2] and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation,
[3] and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation
[4].

Every man is likened to a house: when the prince of the power of the air, (Eph 2:2), and unclean spirit of the world is cast out of the man, the unclean spirit traverses through dry-arid desert places, seeking rest and finding none. Then he says to himself, "I will return to my house from where I came out", and when he is come he finds it empty, and swept, and garnished with new idols and trinkets. Then he goes and associates in league with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself; the princes, the governors, the captains, the judges, the treasurers, the counselors, the sheriffs, even all the rulers of the provinces, (Dan 3:2), and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of the man is worse off than the first. No exceptions to the rule for those who believe the Testimony of Messiah in the above Matthew passage. But these things are allegories, parables, sayings, idiomatic statements, and typology, (and sin dwells in the temple "outer boundaries" of the flesh, not with the inner man, Rom 7:14-25). I will attempt explain the first beast, the lion, from the Testimony of the Master. As may be seen from Matthew 12:36-37 quoted above, the beginning of these things concern our words and what comes forth from the mouth; and it is what comes forth from the mouth that defiles the man.

Matthew 15:18-20 KJV
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts
[1], murders [2], adulteries [3], fornications [4], thefts [5], false witness [6], blasphemies: [7]
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.


Who is willing to believe this to its full conclusion throughout all of his or her doctrine? It impacts everything, even prophecy; for the prophets spoke concerning Messiah, and his teachings expound the Torah and the prophets. The "possession" of Nebuchadnezzar reveals a critical clue concerning the first beast, and that is, that the heart of Nebuchadnezzar was changed from that of a man to that of a beast, (we will later find out that this is the first beast of the lion). Nebuchadnezzar is also likened to a tree, just as we all are, (and every man is like a dominion, a realm, a kingdom, even four dominions to the first "age" of the man; for the kingdom of Elohim is within us, (Luke 17:20-21 KJV)).

Daniel 4:13-17 KJV
13 I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven;
14 He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches:
15 Nevertheless leave the stump of his roots in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth:
16 Let his heart be changed from man's, and let a beast's heart be given unto him; and let seven times pass over him.
17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.


And what does this ultimately concern according to what follows in the same passage? What brings it all to come to pass? It is his own pride and stout-heartedness, by way of his own words coming forth from his own mouth, which thoughts and intentions proceeded from his heart; and this is what brings the decree upon king Nebuchadnezzar, (Dan 4:30-31). But in the vision of the four beasts we see the same thing from an opposite perspective; we see that the lionlike beast is given the heart of the man. This is the same but rather from the perspective of the four beasts overtaking the "dominion" of the man:

Daniel 7:2-4 KJV
2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.


What does it mean by way of the Testimony of Messiah? The heart of the man is given over to the first beast which is a lion. Therefore we see in the Apocalypse that the composite beast speaks with the mouth of lion; for those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart, and they defile the man: for out of the heart proceed evil thoughts [1], murders [2], adulteries [3], fornications [4], thefts [5], false witness [6], blasphemies [7].

Therefore the composite beast speaks with the mouth of a lion; for his heart is given over to a lionlike beast:

Revelation 13:2 KJV
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Revelation 13:6
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against Elohim, to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle, and those tabernacling in the heavens.


This is nothing new: it goes on right here in this forum all day long, every day of the week, and the tree is known by its fruits; but there is a day coming that is to each in his or her own appointed times, (for the heart to be circumcised by the Master and the Minister of the supernal circumcision of the heart, as we already spoke about).

Hosea 13:6-11
6 According to their pasture, so were they filled; they were filled, and their heart was exalted; therefore have they forgotten Me.
7 Therefore I will be unto them as a lion: as a leopard by the way will I observe them:
8 I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart,
[a chestplate of iron] and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them.
9 O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in Me is thine help.
10 I will be thy king: where is any other that may save thee in all thy cities? and thy judges of whom thou saidst, Give me a king and princes?
11 I gave you a king in My displeasure: and will take him away in My fury!


And of course the "king" in the final statement of the above passage is not a king that can be seen with the eyes of the flesh; nay, seven heads, which are seven mountains, and there be seven kings, and the eighth is of the seven because he is the first to be cast out into the dry-arid desert places: and that one goes and associates in league with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself. And who shall live when El does this? Out of Zion shall come forth the Deliverer, and in this manner shall the all Israel and olive tree of the Father be saved, each in his or her own appointed times, no exceptions to the rule. But it is all meant for good, just as the good and final outcome for Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 4.

Jeremiah 31:26-31 KJV
26 Upon this I awaked, and beheld; and my sleep was sweet unto me.
27 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.
28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD.
29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


Each in his or her own appointed times; and none shall be alone in his appointed times.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Jesus gives the gift to those he wants to give it, and he gives the gift to those who please him.

John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.
You ALWAYS go back to the books written by those of the circumcision who were under the law.
You reject the risen LORD Jesus Christ's revelation to and through the apostle Paul.
 

daqq

Well-known member
You ALWAYS go back to the books written by those of the circumcision who were under the law.
You reject the risen LORD Jesus Christ's revelation to and through the apostle Paul.

GT quoted John 5:21 and that is your response? So according to you then the Gospel of John is by and for, "those of the circumcision who were under the law", and according to you then anyone who believes the Gospel of John has rejected "the risen LORD Jesus Christ's revelation to and through the apostle Paul", and what that really means is that you reject the Testimony of Messiah in the Gospel of John in favor of your corrupt misunderstandings of the writings of Paul, (which is exactly what this thread topic is about). How can you not see that it is you who has forced the separation between the Gospel of John and the writings of Paul? There really is no separation because Paul confesses that he preaches the commandments of the Master, (1Cor 14:36-37 KJV, 1Thes 4:1-2 KJV), and those commandments may only be found in the Gospel accounts and the Apocalypse, and therefore your own understanding of 1Cor 15:1-11, (which you yourself quote to supposedly substantiate your view), is found to be erroneous: for Paul had at his disposal at least one Gospel account, ("Luke"), if not two, or three, or even the four.
 

daqq

Well-known member
GT quoted John 5:21 and that is your response? So according to you then the Gospel of John is by and for, "those of the circumcision who were under the law", and according to you then anyone who believes the Gospel of John has rejected "the risen LORD Jesus Christ's revelation to and through the apostle Paul", and what that really means is that you reject the Testimony of Messiah in the Gospel of John in favor of your corrupt misunderstandings of the writings of Paul, (which is exactly what this thread topic is about). How can you not see that it is you who has forced the separation between the Gospel of John and the writings of Paul? There really is no separation because Paul confesses that he preaches the commandments of the Master, (1Cor 14:36-37 KJV, 1Thes 4:1-2 KJV), and those commandments may only be found in the Gospel accounts and the Apocalypse, and therefore your own understanding of 1Cor 15:1-11, (which you yourself quote to supposedly substantiate your view), is found to be erroneous: for Paul had at his disposal at least one Gospel account, ("Luke"), if not two, or three, or even the four.

There appears to be a very fine line between "right-divider" and "heretic-divider", (lol).
 

God's Truth

New member
GT quoted John 5:21 and that is your response? So according to you then the Gospel of John is by and for, "those of the circumcision who were under the law", and according to you then anyone who believes the Gospel of John has rejected "the risen LORD Jesus Christ's revelation to and through the apostle Paul", and what that really means is that you reject the Testimony of Messiah in the Gospel of John in favor of your corrupt misunderstandings of the writings of Paul, (which is exactly what this thread topic is about). How can you not see that it is you who has forced the separation between the Gospel of John and the writings of Paul? There really is no separation because Paul confesses that he preaches the commandments of the Master, (1Cor 14:36-37 KJV, 1Thes 4:1-2 KJV), and those commandments may only be found in the Gospel accounts and the Apocalypse, and therefore your own understanding of 1Cor 15:1-11, (which you yourself quote to supposedly substantiate your view), is found to be erroneous: for Paul had at his disposal at least one Gospel account, ("Luke"), if not two, or three, or even the four.

Amen. Perfect.
 

God's Truth

New member
All the meaning is supernal, or "spiritual", and concerns our walk, and it is based in the Testimony of Messiah. You can see the four generations in several places in the Gospel accounts also, such as follows:

Matthew 12:36-45 KJV
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation
[1] seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation,
[2] and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation,
[3] and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation
[4].

Every man is likened to a house: when the prince of the power of the air, (Eph 2:2), and unclean spirit of the world is cast out of the man, the unclean spirit traverses through dry-arid desert places, seeking rest and finding none. Then he says to himself, "I will return to my house from where I came out", and when he is come he finds it empty, and swept, and garnished with new idols and trinkets. Then he goes and associates in league with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself; the princes, the governors, the captains, the judges, the treasurers, the counselors, the sheriffs, even all the rulers of the provinces, (Dan 3:2), and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of the man is worse off than the first. No exceptions to the rule for those who believe the Testimony of Messiah in the above Matthew passage. But these things are allegories, parables, sayings, idiomatic statements, and typology, (and sin dwells in the temple "outer boundaries" of the flesh, not with the inner man, Rom 7:14-25). I will attempt explain the first beast, the lion, from the Testimony of the Master. As may be seen from Matthew 12:36-37 quoted above, the beginning of these things concern our words and what comes forth from the mouth; and it is what comes forth from the mouth that defiles the man.

Matthew 15:18-20 KJV
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts
[1], murders [2], adulteries [3], fornications [4], thefts [5], false witness [6], blasphemies: [7]
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.


Who is willing to believe this to its full conclusion throughout all of his or her doctrine? It impacts everything, even prophecy; for the prophets spoke concerning Messiah, and his teachings expound the Torah and the prophets. The "possession" of Nebuchadnezzar reveals a critical clue concerning the first beast, and that is, that the heart of Nebuchadnezzar was changed from that of a man to that of a beast, (we will later find out that this is the first beast of the lion). Nebuchadnezzar is also likened to a tree, just as we all are, (and every man is like a dominion, a realm, a kingdom, even four dominions to the first "age" of the man; for the kingdom of Elohim is within us, (Luke 17:20-21 KJV)).

Daniel 4:13-17 KJV
13 I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven;
14 He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches:
15 Nevertheless leave the stump of his roots in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth:
16 Let his heart be changed from man's, and let a beast's heart be given unto him; and let seven times pass over him.
17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.


And what does this ultimately concern according to what follows in the same passage? What brings it all to come to pass? It is his own pride and stout-heartedness, by way of his own words coming forth from his own mouth, which thoughts and intentions proceeded from his heart; and this is what brings the decree upon king Nebuchadnezzar, (Dan 4:30-31). But in the vision of the four beasts we see the same thing from an opposite perspective; we see that the lionlike beast is given the heart of the man. This is the same but rather from the perspective of the four beasts overtaking the "dominion" of the man:

Daniel 7:2-4 KJV
2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.


What does it mean by way of the Testimony of Messiah? The heart of the man is given over to the first beast which is a lion. Therefore we see in the Apocalypse that the composite beast speaks with the mouth of lion; for those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart, and they defile the man: for out of the heart proceed evil thoughts [1], murders [2], adulteries [3], fornications [4], thefts [5], false witness [6], blasphemies [7].

Therefore the composite beast speaks with the mouth of a lion; for his heart is given over to a lionlike beast:

Revelation 13:2 KJV
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Revelation 13:6
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against Elohim, to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle, and those tabernacling in the heavens.


This is nothing new: it goes on right here in this forum all day long, every day of the week, and the tree is known by its fruits; but there is a day coming that is to each in his or her own appointed times, (for the heart to be circumcised by the Master and the Minister of the supernal circumcision of the heart, as we already spoke about).

Hosea 13:6-11
6 According to their pasture, so were they filled; they were filled, and their heart was exalted; therefore have they forgotten Me.
7 Therefore I will be unto them as a lion: as a leopard by the way will I observe them:
8 I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart,
[a chestplate of iron] and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them.
9 O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in Me is thine help.
10 I will be thy king: where is any other that may save thee in all thy cities? and thy judges of whom thou saidst, Give me a king and princes?
11 I gave you a king in My displeasure: and will take him away in My fury!


And of course the "king" in the final statement of the above passage is not a king that can be seen with the eyes of the flesh; nay, seven heads, which are seven mountains, and there be seven kings, and the eighth is of the seven because he is the first to be cast out into the dry-arid desert places: and that one goes and associates in league with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself. And who shall live when El does this? Out of Zion shall come forth the Deliverer, and in this manner shall the all Israel and olive tree of the Father be saved, each in his or her own appointed times, no exceptions to the rule. But it is all meant for good, just as the good and final outcome for Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 4.

Jeremiah 31:26-31 KJV
26 Upon this I awaked, and beheld; and my sleep was sweet unto me.
27 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.
28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD.
29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


Each in his or her own appointed times; and none shall be alone in his appointed times.

I am going to take time to study this, thank you.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Salvation is about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
Indeed, and it's received by faith BEFORE any obedience of ANY kind can occur.

Eph 2:8-10 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. (2:10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Saved BY GRACE (the GIFT of God) unto good works that we should walk in them.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
...but a major point of truth is that it is 'our' gospel and Paul is not saying it is his as if it is not the other apostles too.

Paul met the Ascended Christ on the road to Damascus and subsequently received the "Grace Gospel" that he was to preach to the Gentiles and any Jews that would place their faith in Christ alone. He was called "The Apostle to the Gentiles" Paul's Gospel is different than what the other Apostles were preaching, which was, "The Kingdom Gospel" which was preached ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Most people are unaware that the crown of thorns (symbolism of Nun and Sin) are the circumcision of the Son of God (Adam). It's important to know what he paid as the Lamb of the fall of mankind.

Genesis 9:6

6 Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans his blood will be shed,
because in his image, Elohim made humans.

NOG version. Elohim is the Father resting in Genesis 2:1-3. Yahweh is the Lord, or Son. He shed human blood, thereby paying this cost. Paul never mentions this.

What form of faith are you affiliated with? Jewish, Lutheran, Catholic, Other?
 
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