OK... I can see that.Sozo said:
After all, I call Bob "Bob".
And not "Pastor Bob".
However, I don't see why it would be wrong to call him "Pastor Bob" if I wanted to. Do you?
Pastors
- Thread starter Lucky
- Start date
After all, I call Bob "Bob".
And not "Pastor Bob".
However, I don't see why it would be wrong to call him "Pastor Bob" if I wanted to. Do you?
elohiym
Well-known member
I am opposed to titles like Reverend, His Holiness, etc. These titles wrongly exalt one man over another, when Jesus clearly instructed that Believers don't do that.
25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
27 For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth. Luke 22
I feel that the word Pastor is often used as a title to exalt one man above the church members, as though the average church member were not a minister of God or a priest. However, the Bible reveals that all believers are ministers of God, and all believers are holy, royal priests.26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
27 For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth. Luke 22
Isaiah 61:6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.
2 Corinthians 6:4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses...
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
As holy, royal priests and ministers of God, we serve each other in various roles, some teachers, some pastors, some apostles, etc.2 Corinthians 6:4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses...
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Reverence is nothing more than "deep respect", I certainly don't think there is anything wrong with giving special respect to certain folks.Sozo said:
Afterall.... there are all sorts of examples of that in the Bible i.e., widows, older men etc.
Me thinks this is a bit like making a mountain errrrrrrrr maybe a small mound out of a molehill.
Sozo
New member
Perhaps, but seeing how God is no respecter of persons, I'm just trying to follow his example.Knight said:Reverence is nothing more than "deep respect", I certainly don't think there is anything wrong with giving special respect to certain folks.
Afterall.... there are all sorts of examples of that in the Bible i.e., widows, older men etc.
Me thinks this is a bit like making a mountain errrrrrrrr maybe a small mound out of a molehill.
Pastor or Shepherd is ok. However....some qualification is in order.
The western view of Pastor, I believe, is overblown. Especially here in the United States, where in many churches, the Pastor is the Preacher, the Teacher, the Shepherd, the Visionary, the Counselor, an Elder, bulletin printer, format organizer, sidewalk shoveler, and so on.
I believe that specifically, the Pastor is a shepherd. He is one who cares for the flock, keeps a watchful eye on them, and is a visionary for the church. He assesses the needs of the entire local church and is a 'project manager' so to speak.
He doesn't have to necessarily be the Preacher. The preacher is one who gets various doctrines, theologies and applications to the local Body.
The Teacher, also delineated by Paul, is one who addresses more specific questions and topics in a teacher/student relationship.
more later as it comes to me
The western view of Pastor, I believe, is overblown. Especially here in the United States, where in many churches, the Pastor is the Preacher, the Teacher, the Shepherd, the Visionary, the Counselor, an Elder, bulletin printer, format organizer, sidewalk shoveler, and so on.
I believe that specifically, the Pastor is a shepherd. He is one who cares for the flock, keeps a watchful eye on them, and is a visionary for the church. He assesses the needs of the entire local church and is a 'project manager' so to speak.
He doesn't have to necessarily be the Preacher. The preacher is one who gets various doctrines, theologies and applications to the local Body.
The Teacher, also delineated by Paul, is one who addresses more specific questions and topics in a teacher/student relationship.
more later as it comes to me
Daniel50
New member
A pastor is a shepherd.The Greek word poimen occurs 17 times in the New Testament.
Only one time it translated "Pastor",which is in Ephesian 4;11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
The other 16 times it is translated "shepherd".So in Eph 4;11paul is saying that the pastor is to be the shepherd of his flock.
Jeremiah 3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.
A real pastor is commissione by God to do his job.
Only one time it translated "Pastor",which is in Ephesian 4;11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
The other 16 times it is translated "shepherd".So in Eph 4;11paul is saying that the pastor is to be the shepherd of his flock.
Jeremiah 3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.
A real pastor is commissione by God to do his job.
You don't respect certain people more than others? :think:Sozo said:Perhaps, but seeing how God is no respecter of persons, I'm just trying to follow his example.
Are you getting special revelation???truthman said:
I agree with that answer 100% :up:Sozo said:
Yes. :wink:Knight said:Are you getting special revelation???
BTW, in regards to my above post, I believe that the "Government" of the local church (which is a God given gift btw) should resemble a monarchy.
Instead of King, you have Pastor as head.
The Preacher, Teacher, Elders, Deacons all report directly to the Pastor.
The Elders not only aid in overseeing church affairs such as finances and direction, but also act as judges. A healthy church might even have it's own church court that meets weekly where the Elders or Judges should hear matters pertaining to it's members and their dealings or conflicts with one another.
truthman
GuySmiley
Well-known member
I see it kinda like calling a cop Officer Smith, or a doctor Dr. Smith. If I was close friends with them, I'd just call them Joe.
Also, I think the use of the word pastor is loose today. Pastor means shepherd, but I think most pastors today are more teachers. I see the true use of pastor to be someone who relates to the 'flock' and helps them personally. My view of this is probably because I grew up in (and still attend) a large church where its really not possible for the 'pastor' to have personal relationships with everyone.
Also, I think the use of the word pastor is loose today. Pastor means shepherd, but I think most pastors today are more teachers. I see the true use of pastor to be someone who relates to the 'flock' and helps them personally. My view of this is probably because I grew up in (and still attend) a large church where its really not possible for the 'pastor' to have personal relationships with everyone.
I don't have a problem with any of that per se.truthman said:
:chuckle: Sorry your Majesty, but coming from a pastor... that's funny.truthman said:
Interestingly, in Scripture, teachers are grouped with pastors. Elders and deacons are grouped together in a different area of scripture. Here's what I believe:
Bishops/overseers/elders (I prefer elders) and deacons are the governmental roles. In Ephesians, we're dealing with roles that are best explained as <insert Eph 4:12>. Now there can be overlap. A pastor should be an elder. In 1 Peter 5, elders are exhorted to feed the flock, to take care of it. Thus, pastors and elders are essentially the same. A local church doesn't need to be limited to one pastor just as it doesn't need to be limited to one evangelist or one teacher. If you want to think of it as a monarchy, okay, but Christ the Chief Shepherd is King.
I don't have a problem with any of that.
PastorZ77
New member
For me it is somehwat endearing, and reverent in and of itself, when I use it to refer to someone else. There are men of God I admire greatly and they are pastors and I call them "pastor".
That said, there are other pastors that for whatever reason I don't have such a great affinity for and I prefer to refer to them as reverend personally, just because of what "pastor" means to me.
As for ME (pastorz77), I signed up for TOL a long time ago, when i FIRST started pastoring, so I was, in a sense "proud" to have begun that journey. If I signed up today, I probably would not give myself that moniker, not because I think anything is wrong with it, but because of how it may be perceived.
-Adam
That said, there are other pastors that for whatever reason I don't have such a great affinity for and I prefer to refer to them as reverend personally, just because of what "pastor" means to me.
As for ME (pastorz77), I signed up for TOL a long time ago, when i FIRST started pastoring, so I was, in a sense "proud" to have begun that journey. If I signed up today, I probably would not give myself that moniker, not because I think anything is wrong with it, but because of how it may be perceived.
-Adam
elohiym
Well-known member
Actually, I do consider Sozo a pastor. In my opinion, he fits that role well.chandru46 said:
In my opinion--and I believe the Bible supports this--a Pastor is a like a waiter and a bouncer combined. He feeds the sheep, and chases out the wolves. A difficult and essential role in the body.
So many who call themselves Pastor, don't feed the sheep, and actually invite the wolves to dine. :sigh: