ECT Our triune God

[godrulz]

Well, god, we finally agree on something. God offers us eternal life and he is the source of that life. His life has always existed and he is willing to give us a share of his eternal life. The eternal life he gives us has no beginning, it has always existed and is now available to us if we want it.

Well, God alone is eternal without beginning, without end.

We are created, everlasting, with a beginning, but without end. Our eternal life begins when we receive Him (Jn. 1:12; I Jn. 5:11-13) and does not end if we remain in Him (perseverance/continuance in the faith). Our eternal life did not start in eternity past, per se. Eternal life is in the Son, not inherent in us. We do not receive this gift until we are in Him. Our eternal life does not predate our existence.

 

[Omniskeptical]

God created eternity for the universe, not himself. You almost got that part right. Your definition of eternal is rubbish.

 

[godrulz]

God created eternity for the universe, not himself. You almost got that part right. Your definition of eternal is rubbish.

What are you talking about? God created the universe, heavens, earth, man, etc. Eternity is uncreated like God is.

Maybe you should define eternity according to you and explain how it is a created thing.

Since your view is unheard of, the burden of proof is on you, not us.

 

[jamie]

Well, God alone is eternal without beginning, without end.

That suggests that God's life is eternal, without end. The Son also has eternal life without end. Life comes from life, it is not spontaneous. Eternal life by definition is eternal. What you seem to be saying is that eternal life has a beginning. I disagree.

 

[keypurr]

What are you talking about? God created the universe, heavens, earth, man, etc. Eternity is uncreated like God is.

Maybe you should define eternity according to you and explain how it is a created thing.

Since your view is unheard of, the burden of proof is on you, not us.

Eternity is a measurement of time, time was a creation. God created everything but himself.

Posted from the TOL App!

 

[jamie]

Eternity is a measurement of time, time was a creation. God created everything but himself.

I disagree. Eternity exists outside of time and like infinity cannot be measured.

 

[keypurr]

I disagree. Eternity exists outside of time and like infinity cannot be measured.

Define eternity without using time.

Posted from the TOL App!

 

[jamie]

Define eternity without using time.

Ok, eternity is an infinite amount of time. Can you measure infinity?

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

What if everybody is right to an extent and yet everybody is wrong to an extent (about eternity, time, etc.)?

That's exactly what the issue is, and none from any perspective can truly comprehend anything else or would ever yield to being wrong by any degree or percentage.

 

[godrulz]

That suggests that God's life is eternal, without end. The Son also has eternal life without end. Life comes from life, it is not spontaneous. Eternal life by definition is eternal. What you seem to be saying is that eternal life has a beginning. I disagree.

God's life is eternal. Before I exist, I do not have life. I have life when I am conceived. I am eternal life when I am born again (I Jn. 5:11-13; Jn. 3:16).

Pre-existence of souls is Origen, Mormon, not biblical.

 

[godrulz]

Ok, eternity is an infinite amount of time. Can you measure infinity?

Finite, infinite regress is not logically possible. Creation had a beginning. Time is a concept, not a physical, created thing.

God is eternal, without beginning without end. He experiences endless time/duration/sequence/succession. Time is an aspect of the eternal God's triune experiences, not an infinite thing like endless cookies.

+ and - integers go on forever in both directions....

 

[keypurr]

Ok, eternity is an infinite amount of time. Can you measure infinity?

You used time, eternity is in time not out of it.


Posted from the TOL App!

 

[keypurr]

Finite, infinite regress is not logically possible. Creation had a beginning. Time is a concept, not a physical, created thing.



God is eternal, without beginning without end. He experiences endless time/duration/sequence/succession. Time is an aspect of the eternal God's triune experiences, not an infinite thing like endless cookies.



+ and - integers go on forever in both directions....

Only the Father is God, he had no beginning. However his son is the IMAGE of the father, reason should tell you that he is a creation that has a beginning. All things came to be from the Father through the son. Time included.


Posted from the TOL App!

 

[jamie]

...reason should tell you that he is a creation that has a beginning.

Pre-existence of souls is Origen, Mormon, not biblical.

Those are your words not mine. I never said anything about pre-existence of souls.

I see life as a gift, something that can be given. God did not create life, it's something he has always had. There was never a time that God did not have life. Life is who he is and who he has always been.

Our parents gave us life, but God gives us eternal life. If you want to, we can define eternal life as having no beginning and no end, God himself being an example of eternal life, no beginning and no end.

God is life and he is the source of life for us. In a physical sense God is our father through adoption, we each have had a physical father, but God is our spiritual father through regeneration. We become a part of his Spirit, a part of who he is and always will be. If we are faithful we are inseparable from God and from his Son. If we are not faithful God will reclaim his life. He doesn't reclaim the life our parents gave us, he reclaims the life he gave us. Our parents did not give us eternal life, they gave us temporal life, a life that could end in an instant. But God offers us eternal life, life that did not begin with us, God gives us life that had no beginning and will have no end.

God did not create his life, it is something he has always had and no one can take his life from him. This is the life he offers to us, not a temporal life like our parents gave us but eternal life, his eternal life that can be ours through being faithful to him until our change to a spiritual body like his and the receipt of immortality, which is life inherent.

God's soul mate who became Jesus Christ also had neither beginning of days nor end of life, that is until he surrendered his immortality to become mortal like us. Had the mortal Jesus sinned he would have incurred eternal death with no one to save him or redeem him.

Jesus laid his eternity on the line for us and for all who come after us.

 

[keypurr]

Those are your words not mine. I never said anything about pre-existence of souls.



I see life as a gift, something that can be given. God did not create life, it's something he has always had. There was never a time that God did not have life. Life is who he is and who he has always been.



Our parents gave us life, but God gives us eternal life. If you want to, we can define eternal life as having no beginning and no end, God himself being an example of eternal life, no beginning and no end.



God is life and he is the source of life for us. In a physical sense God is our father through adoption, we each have had a physical father, but God is our spiritual father through regeneration. We become a part of his Spirit, a part of who he is and always will be. If we are faithful we are inseparable from God and from his Son. If we are not faithful God will reclaim his life. He doesn't reclaim the life our parents gave us, he reclaims the life he gave us. Our parents did not give us eternal life, they gave us temporal life, a life that could end in an instant. But God offers us eternal life, life that did not begin with us, God gives us life that had no beginning and will have no end.



God did not create his life, it is something he has always had and no one can take his life from him. This is the life he offers to us, not a temporal life like our parents gave us but eternal life, his eternal life that can be ours through being faithful to him until our change to a spiritual body like his and the receipt of immortality, which is life inherent.



God's soul mate who became Jesus Christ also had neither beginning of days nor end of life, that is until he surrendered his immortality to become mortal like us. Had the mortal Jesus sinned he would have incurred eternal death with no one to save him or redeem him.



Jesus laid his eternity on the line for us and for all who come after us.

We agree on much except the fact that Christ is an image therefor has a beginning. Every image is a creation, it had to have a start. The father had to be alone before he created his image for he created everything else through his image.


Posted from the TOL App!

 

[jamie]

We agree on much except the fact that Christ is an image therefor has a beginning. Every image is a creation, it had to have a start. The father had to be alone before he created his image for he created everything else through his image.

He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. (Colossians 1:13-15)​

In the beginning was the Word and the Word became flesh. Was the Word flesh in the beginning? No, the Word became flesh. How? How did the Word become flesh?

The Word became flesh by being born of woman. His mother named him Joshua which in Greek is Jesus. Jesus like all other humans is in the image and likeness of God.

The Word was not an image, the Word was God and he was with God. The two of them together without beginning. But the Word became human and all humans are in the image of God.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. (Colossians 1:13-15)​

In the beginning was the Word and the Word became flesh. Was the Word flesh in the beginning? No, the Word became flesh. How? How did the Word become flesh?

The Word became flesh by being born of woman. His mother named him Joshua which in Greek is Jesus. Jesus like all other humans is in the image and likeness of God.

The Word was not an image, the Word was God and he was with God. The two of them together without beginning. But the Word became human and all humans are in the image of God.

There is no evidence in scripture that the word became flesh at the conception of Jesus.

There is evidence that Jesus began to feed on the living word of God at a later time until its completion sometime before His baptism.

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

LA

 

[keypurr]

He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. (Colossians 1:13-15)​

In the beginning was the Word and the Word became flesh. Was the Word flesh in the beginning? No, the Word became flesh. How? How did the Word become flesh?



The Word became flesh by being born of woman. His mother named him Joshua which in Greek is Jesus. Jesus like all other humans is in the image and likeness of God.



The Word was not an image, the Word was God and he was with God. The two of them together without beginning. But the Word became human and all humans are in the image of God.

Word is not the best word to use for logos. Logos needs a deeper understanding.
If the WORD is an image it has a beginning. Christ is the express image of God.
The father is the only one who does not have a beginning. Christ, being an image, is a creation. God was alone before Christ was created.


Posted from the TOL App!

 

[Lon]

From Beloved's Triune thread

From Beloved's Triune thread

Another comparison that shows the Holy Ghost as God is here Jn 6:63

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Here, the Spirit, whom is the Holy Ghost, Jesus says is the one who quicknens or makes alive, But yet again Paul writes in Eph 2:4-5

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Its God who is stated to have quickened or makes alive !

 

[Lon]

If there was a place in the Scriptures that God said, unequivocally, that He was triune, then perhaps it would be believable.

You'll have to go beyond your five senses to understand...
Did you pick that name on purpose? You seem reasonable, at least at the moment :up:

But since it is absent in the Writings, and all that there is to know about a supposed trinity is based upon human reasonings, how is it possible to believe what does not exist in the Scriptures?

Simply start with John 1:1 "...was with and was God..."
Both, at the same time even....

Is it that difficult to believe God? He says, " I am One and there is no other before me" and that is not sufficient?

Yes. Agreed, but now read John 1:1 Both.

What is in the way of accepting His declaration,

"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him...

A child can understand this truth, it is plainly written and declared.

Yes, unless you are stopping at one sentence, such is simpleton, not simple.

"and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." 1C 8:6

John 1:1 Go to John 8:58 and John 20:28 while you are it.... :think:

Does Christ Jesus share in the Father's deity? Of a certainty, for there is only One begotten of God by Holy Spirit among men. He is Deity, He is God to us.

John 1:1 "with" (separate) and "was" (same). ---> "Tri-" and "-une."

That's precisely why we are what we are. This much, is absolute and clear.

But is He the One True God?

Jesus called Him, "My God and Father".

Does God have a God?

All this is counter reasoning, in an attempt to put forth the evidence that God has spoken, and there is only one God, the Father, out of Whom all is.

Your reasoning isn't bad, but that is all it is, a summation of your intellect wrestling with scriptures. I believe we have to take John 1:1 at face value and clear revelation and deal rightly with the consequences that there is a God-given dichotomy. Tri-une is nothing more or less than that embrace, therefore anything else, is going beyond what is reasonable and scriptural, no? When you pit your will and your intellect against the whole of Christendom, you will surely be found wanting. I know you guys are trying to wrestle rightly, but such is a bit arrogant, when it goes against the vein, if you don't mind the likewise, but careful disagreement.

It is best to rely on what God has revealed plainly, and not embrace the reasonings of men in this matter. Any "truth" from a source outside of the evidence of Scripture is falsehood.

This is true, but both more apparently against the other. As I began, I end, John 1:1