ECT Our triune God

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
2Jn 1:3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
 

Lon

Active member
That was a waste of space.. what are you getting at by writing that drivel? You are the one double thinking the text.. reading into it what is not there, and never could be, given the way the interjection is structured.
No, I am not double thinking the text. To me, that's the 'first' thing I thought it said. Digging has only confirmed such. You are the one in 200, remember? ▼
It is the nominative of address which is equivalent to the vocative. Thomas addressed Jesus saying to Him, "My Lord and my God."

Now who is doing a fancy dance here, Mr 1 in 200? :think:
There is also a dative issue (direct address).
▲Forest/trees much?

That's 3 that have had a couple of Greek classes. I wonder what the other 197 would have on their answer sheets? :think:
And you suppose yourself to be any less conceited?

Er, one in two hundred, remember? "#196 calling #196,"

When the Teacher gets back, you are so 'in trouble.'
 

godrulz

New member
Hall of Fame
There is no affirmation either. There is no proof that Thomas interjection was not one address either, of which is a nominative without verb and without accussative. It addressed two objects and not one.

This is not grammatically, contextually true based on similar phrases about YHWH in the LXX. The only reason you argue this way is to deny the truth of the statement, a strong affirmation of the Deity of Christ.
 

serpentdove

BANNED
Banned
...[R]emoves the Deity of Christ, personality of the Holy Spirit, etc...
You're projecting again. :noway:

SD: “ Could he [Jesus] have sinned?
Godrulz: “I believe He could have, but did not…” link

Jesus is incorruptible (Rom 1:23), immutable (Ps 102:26–27, James 1:17), and perfect (Matt 5:48 , Ps 99:9, Is 5:16). You do not know him. The god you worship is not the God of scripture. You are an idolater (1 Co 6:9).

See:

Godrulz
 

godrulz

New member
Hall of Fame
You're projecting again. :noway:

SD: “ Could he [Jesus] have sinned?
Godrulz: “I believe He could have, but did not…” link

Jesus is incorruptible (Rom 1:23), immutable (Ps 102:26–27, James 1:17), and perfect (Matt 5:48 , Ps 99:9, Is 5:16). You do not know him. The god you worship is not the God of scripture. You are an idolater (1 Co 6:9).

See:

Godrulz

Jesus is God Almighty, part of the triune Godhead. He is one person with two natures, fully God, fully man. He was virgin conceived, sinless, rose from the dead, etc.

This is the same God/Jesus you and all other true Christians affirm.

A false god/christ would be like Islam's version (deny His Deity, death, resurrection), Mormonism (one god among many gods, evolving man), JW (Michael Archangel, created being).

You lack integrity, credibility, brains. You should not be on a theology site.:doh:
 

Lon

Active member
A good post from Redeemed 777

A good post from Redeemed 777

We know for sure WHO came down from heaven to become Jesus
“In the beginning was the Word (the Logos), and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God. … And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us” (John 1:1,14)
“… and His (Jesus') name is called The Word of God.” (Revelation 19:13)

We know for sure WHY Jesus was called “the Son of God”
“After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was
found with child of the Holy Spiritthat which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
… and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”(Matthew 1:18-23)
“The Holy Spirit will come upon you (Mary), and the power of the Highest will overshadow you;
therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.” (Luke 1:35)

This does NOT mean that the Word (the Logos) always was the Son of God.
Because He was to be CALLED “the Son of God” does NOT mean that He was the Son previously.
Being the ONLY human male to ever be born this way, Jesus was “the only begotten Son of God”.

Let’s investigate …
WHO was the eternal Second Person of the Trinity PRIOR to the birth of Jesus!

2 Old Testament clues
“I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt,
and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.” (Daniel 3:25)
“I was watching in the night visions, and behold, One like the Son of Man, coming with the clouds
of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought Him near before Him.” (Daniel 7:13).

We know Jesus called Himself “the Son of Man” many times
“… He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.” (John 3:13)
“What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before?” (John 6:62)

“The Son of Man” was in heaven …
BEFORE Jesus’ birth (previous verses), and AFTER His ascension (next verse).

“But he (Stephen), being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God,
and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened
and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!” (Acts 7:55-56)

John said Jesus (i.e. God) was like the Son of Man
“ ‘I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last’ … Then I turned to see
the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands,
and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man …” (Revelation 1:10-13)

Jesus said He was both “the Son of God” and “the Son of Man”
“Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!” Jesus said to him, “It is as you said.
Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right
hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.” (Matthew 26:63-64)

“Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens,
Jesus the Son of God …” (Hebrews 4:14)

To summarizw what we've seen above:
“the Son of God” and “the Son of Man” in the OT (Daniel 3:25, 7:13)
“the Son of God” has passed through the heavens (Hebrews 4:14)
“the Son of Man” came down from heaven (John 3:13, 6:62)
“the Son of Man” was in heaven after Jesus ascended (Acts 7:56, Rev 1:13)
Jesus called Himself both “Son of God” and “Son of Man” (Matthew 26:63-64)

So, we must conclude
The Word(Logos), “the Son of Man”, “the Son of God” came down from heaven to become Jesus.
The Son of God was manifested” (1 John 3:8) … “became flesh and dwelt among us” (John 1:14)
These names/titles represent the Second Person (Manifestation) of the Triune Godhead.
Historical Christianity has been correct after all.

In post #2 … we will see that the NT Jews were expecting
ALL of the following: the Messiah, the Christ, the Son of God.


... the Jews at the time of Jesus believed:

Messiah = Christ
Andrew and Peter: “We have found the Messiah (which is translated the Christ)” (John 1:41)
The lowly Samaritans believed the same: “I know that Messiah is coming (who is called Christ).
When He comes, He will tell us all things.” (John 4:25)

Christ = Son of God
The high priest: “Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God” (Matthew 26:63, Mark 14:61)
Peter: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” (Matthew 16:16)
Martha: “… You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.” (John 11:27)
John: “... but these (Jesus’ signs) are written that you may believe
that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God …” (John 20:31)

Therefore … Messiah(Hebrew) == Cristos(Greek) == Christ(English).


Good summation of your study :up: Thanks.
 

Omniskeptical

New member
This is not grammatically, contextually true based on similar phrases about YHWH in the LXX. The only reason you argue this way is to deny the truth of the statement, a strong affirmation of the Deity of Christ.
There is no statement, just an interjection. You can't prove otherwise, so you are only insist it is so. "My apartment, and My dog..." Notice how and separates the two objects just like KAI does.
 

godrulz

New member
Hall of Fame
There is no statement, just an interjection. You can't prove otherwise, so you are only insist it is so. "My apartment, and My dog..." Notice how and separates the two objects just like KAI does.

The vocative and dative show that it is a direct address to Jesus. Thomas said TO HIM (not to THEM): the Lord of me, the God of me.

When the same phrase is used in the LXX about YHWH, you do not use the same lame logic.

Even JW NWT does not try to twist this verse like they do the other Deity of Christ verses. They simply use stupid arguments like you to retain Arian ideas. They say things like Thomas was surprised and said basically 'oh my God'. Seriously?!

I said to you, my friend and my co-worker. Again, direct address with two descriptions of the same person. If I wanted to separate them, I would say something like, I say to you two, my friend (one person), my co-worker (another person). Context ultimately determines the issue.

Jesus simply received this as worship (other places combine Lord and God about YHWH).

You are rationalizing away truth, not exegeting.

The grammar, theology, context stands against your view.
 

Omniskeptical

New member
Jesus is God Almighty, part of the triune Godhead. He is one person with two natures, fully God, fully man. He was virgin conceived, sinless, rose from the dead, etc.

This is the same God/Jesus you and all other true Christians affirm.

A false god/christ would be like Islam's version (deny His Deity, death, resurrection), Mormonism (one god among many gods, evolving man), JW (Michael Archangel, created being).

You lack integrity, credibility, brains. You should not be on a theology site.:doh:
He has to be fully human, and not the God for him to be a relevant example. η o̔δὸς καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια καὶ ἡ ζωή "a way, a truth, and a life." Anything else is less and is idolatry. You can't justify apparent arrogance by claiming he was half-God, because he was fully human and would be doing wrong.

But let us look at 1 Corinthians 5:21
τὸν γὰρ μὴ γνόντα ἁμαρτίαν ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἁμαρτίαν ἐποίησεν, ἵνα ἡμεῖς γενώμεθα δικαιοσύνη Θεοῦ ἐν αὐτῷ.

"Because one not feeling the wrongdeed for us, the wrongdeed, he made him, that we ourselves might be the good of God, in him."

A way, A truth, and A life -- indeed.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
Jesus is God Almighty, part of the triune Godhead. He is one person with two natures, fully God, fully man. He was virgin conceived, sinless, rose from the dead, etc.

This is the same God/Jesus you and all other true Christians affirm.

A false god/christ would be like Islam's version (deny His Deity, death, resurrection), Mormonism (one god among many gods, evolving man), JW (Michael Archangel, created being).

You lack integrity, credibility, brains. You should not be on a theology site.:doh:

Mar 5:7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

Still think Jesus is God Almighty?
 

Omniskeptical

New member
The vocative and dative show that it is a direct address to Jesus....
It is neither of the sort according to the "basics".

When the same phrase is used in the LXX about YHWH, you do not use the same lame logic.
Where?

Even JW NWT does not try to twist this verse like they do the other Deity of Christ verses. They simply use stupid arguments like you to retain Arian ideas. They say things like Thomas was surprised and said basically 'oh my God'. Seriously?!
I am not twisting, and I can't usually help that JWs are usually stupid.

I said to you, my friend and my co-worker. Again, direct address with two descriptions of the same person.
No greek letters drive the issue here. In such a case, an address would beging with carefully and more logically one accusative not two nominative objects.
imaginary gibberish

You are rationalizing away truth, not exegeting.
There is nothing authentic about idols and idolatry.

The grammar, theology, context stands against your view.
Only in your weak imagination.
 

godrulz

New member
Hall of Fame
Mar 5:7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

Still think Jesus is God Almighty?

Yes, Son of God implies equality with the Father because they share the same eternal nature. The Pharisees understood His claim and wanted to stone Him. Jesus did not correct them, but stood His ground. If you were Jewish like Jesus, you would get it (Jn. 5:18; Jn. 10:30-33 John helps us Gentile readers understand what Jesus is claiming....He is the unique Son of God by eternal nature, while we are adopted and not Deity, not God by nature).
 
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