Right Divider
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When did God become a Father?
Only Y-H-W-H is God, besides Him there is no god!
- Thread starter Elia
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God's Truth
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Right Divider
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Ok, but Jesus was also a man. He spoke TO HIS FATHER. It was NOT the Father talking to HIMSELF.
Your modalism is full of problems and denies the scriptural relationship BETWEEN the Father and the Son.
God's Truth
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You do not get to determine from your non biblical view if I am a believer or not. I am NOT a believer of the trinitarian doctrine, however.
God's Truth
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Right Divider
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Indeed He is. And He talks to HIS FATHER and not to HIMSELF.
God's Truth
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There are three and the three are one and the same.
Right Divider
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One God; three persons. Get Biblical.
God's Truth
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There you go again saying three PERSONS.
God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are SPIRIT.
They are the SAME SPIRIT.
They are not three different, they are ONE AND THE SAME.
beameup
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There is a persistent pattern throughout the Old Testament of God appearing as a man. He talks, walks, has a body, and accepts WORSHIP.
Right Divider
Body part
You keep saying that the three are one, but you have NO THREE.
A Father is a PERSON; a Son is a PERSON; the Holy Spirit is a PERSON.
The FACT that they are all GOD is what the doctrine of the trinity explains.
P.S. The "Father with a body" does NOT make two anything.
God's Truth
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We are not just flesh we are spirit too. We all have a spirit. Jesus' Spirit is the Spirit of God. Jesus is God the Father with a body.
God's Truth
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Father God in invisible light. Father God with a body. The Holy Spirit that goes forth without limit.
They are One and the same Spirit.
Your doctrine makes three different persons making one God.
The Father INVISIBLE who NO ONE has seen lives in UNAPPROACHABLE light.
The Father came as a Son in a body while also living in unapproachable light.
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God that He sends forth. That is three.
Elia
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Bs"d
That would make then for a three-headed God.
But that is impossible, because there is only ONE God; His delight is in the fear of Y-H-W-H, who is ONE. And not three, or three headed, or three persons.
"And God spoke all these words, saying, "I am Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME."
Ex 20:1+2
Elia
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Bs"d
God is not a man, and a man is not God:
"God is not human, that he should lie" Num 23:19
"He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a human being, that he should change his mind.” 1 Samuel 15:29
"For I am God, and not a man— the Holy One among you." Hosea 11:9
Don't worship a man!
"You saw no form of any kind the day Y-H-W-H spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman, or like any animal on earth or any bird that flies in the air, or like any creature that moves along the ground or any fish in the waters below. And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things Y-H-W-H your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven."
Deut 4:15-19
God's Truth
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Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Jesus is no mere man, he was without sin.
Isaiah 53:12
Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great, And He will divide the booty with the strong; Because He poured out Himself to death, And was numbered with the transgressors; Yet He Himself bore the sin of many, And interceded for the transgressors.
Elia, you need to obey Moses.
Where is your tent/temple? Where is your High Priest? Where is your sacrifice?
Elia
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Bs"d
Where is that written in the Bible: "One God three persons"??
Oh wait, that is nowhere written, that is made up by men.
This is what is written:
שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהנו י-ה-ו-ה אחד
Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE.
And you shall love Y-H-W-H your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart;
and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.
And you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
Deut 6:4-9
The Jews until this day fulfill this commandment. Every morning they put upon their arm and upon their forehead their phylacteries, (prayer belts) that consist of black straps with black leather cubes, that contain parchment upon which is written this Biblical text that says that God is one. Upon the doorposts of the houses of the religious Jews there are small boxes or containers that also contain parchment upon which is written that God is one. During the morning and evening prayers the above text is recited which says that God is one.
Y-H-W-H, the one and only God who is one.
Beside Him there is no God, no Buddha, no Christ, no David Koresh; NOBODY.
Whoever worships anything or anybody else than Y-H-W-H is an IDOL WORSHIPPER.
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
A divine person is a god.
When you have 2 or 3 divine persons, then you have 2 or 3 gods, which is polytheism, which is idolatry.
"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”
Joshua 24:14-15
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
For some people it is really hard to count to two...
A divine person is a god. Two divine persons = one god + one god, = TWO (2) gods.
And saying "1 + 1 + 1 = 1" really doesn't help.
“This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no god.”
Isaiah 44:6
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
Let's get Biblical!
Show me where it is written that God is three persons!
Here something Biblical:
"Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4
"Listen, Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One" Holman Christian Standard Bible
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." English Standard Version
"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!" New American Standard Bible
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." New International Version
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!" New King James Version"
"And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the first of all?" Jesus answered, "The first is, `Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, THE LORD IS ONE; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' The second is this, `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." And the scribe said to him, "You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that HE IS ONE, and there is no other but he; and to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."" Mark 12:28-34 Revised Standard Version
“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." .... "You are right in saying that God is one" New International Version
"Here is the most important one. Moses said, 'Israel, listen to me. The Lord is our God. The Lord is one." .... "You are right in saying that God is one." New International Readers Version
"Jesus answered: Listen, Israel! The Lord our God, The Lord is One." .... "You have correctly said that He is One," Holman Christian Standard Bible
"Jesus answered, The first is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God, the Lord is one:" .... "thou hast well said that he is one;" American Standard Version
"Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one." New King James Version
"Jesus answered, "The most important is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one" .... "You have truly said that he is one," English Standard Version
"Jesus said, "The first in importance is, 'Listen, Israel: The Lord your God is one;" .... "A wonderful answer, Teacher! So lucid and accurate—that God is one" The Message
"‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one." .... “You are right in saying that God is one" New International Version
"Now an intermediary implies more than one; but GOD IS ONE." Gal 3:20 Revised Standard Version
"Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but GOD IS ONE" King James Version
"A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but GOD IS ONE." New International Version
"Now an intermediary implies more than one, but GOD IS ONE." English Standard Version
"Now a mediator is not a mediator of one; but GOD IS ONE." American Standard Version
"and the mediator is not of one, and GOD IS ONE" Youngs Literal Translation
"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." James 2:19 Revised Standard Version
"thou -- thou dost believe that GOD IS ONE; thou dost well," Youngs Literal translation
"Thou believest that GOD IS ONE; thou doest well:" American Standard Version
"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." Holman Christian Standard Bible.
"*Thou* believest that GOD IS ONE. Thou doest well." Darby Translation.
"It’s good that you believe that GOD IS ONE." Common English Bible
"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." English Standard Version
"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." Amplified Bible
"You believe that GOD IS ONE You do well;" New American Standard Bible
So the Bible teaches clearly that God is ONE.
"And J-e-h-o-v-a-h shall be King over all the earth: in that day shall J-e-h-o-v-a-h be one, and his name one." Zach 14:9 American Standard Version
"And the LORD shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be— “The LORD is one, And His name one." New King James Version
"And the LORD will be king over all the earth. On that day the LORD will be one and his name one." English Standard Version
"And the Lord shall be King over all the earth; in that day the Lord shall be one [in the recognition and worship of men] and His name one." Amplified Bible