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How are you picking verses then? At random? You clearly chose a specific TNIV verse (2 Corinthians 3:18). And how would you know WNT is a good translation? How do you determine a translation is worded somewhat clearer? Do you choose translations that line up with your position?I do sometimes choose a scripture that is worded more profoundly.
… I have never even heard of TNIV.
… Weymouth is a good translation that I have seen.
… It is not a crime to use translation that is worded somewhat clearer.
You can use whatever translation you want, GT. In all your posts you have never once made reference to the translations you are quoting. Since you do not stick to one translation, it would be useful for you to at least note that you are picking and choosing various translations so we all do not have to search out the particular translations you are relying upon.
You can force the verse pop up at this site to render the translation you are using, GT. See bibleref tag section explained here.The scriptures on this site are set for NKJV.
You are missing the point with all the statements of yours about how I am telling you nothing you do not know. The point is I am hoping you will learn how proper exposition and exegesis of Scripture is to be done. When may I expect to see something similar from you in defense of your positions?You are not saying something that no one knows.
I explained the verses in detail and all you have in response is the same statement you made when originally quoting the verses I then explained to you? GT, you simply are not taking this One-on-One seriously. How do you expect the discussion to move forward when you will not advance the discussion?The Lord is called the Spirit.
Instead of you accepting the truth, you proceed with trying to make others believe the scripture does not say what it does.
Here is Paul's brief means of directing us to the Lord of the new covenant of the Holy Spirit of our living God who gives life[/1], and freedom and unveiling (see 2 Corinthians 3:3, 6, 17-18). As a new minister of the new covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6) Paul declares himself a representative new covenant member, being given a heart of flesh since the Spirit of God has removed the tablets of stone (2 Corinthians 3:3). Given this, Paul can speak not only as apostle (2 Corinthians 3:4-6) but also as a representative of all persons of the new covenant (2 Corinthians 3:12,18). Paul is no longer veiled under the old covenant in which he once lived (2 Corinthians 3:14-15; 5:16-17). Persons of the new covenant, now unveiled though Jesus Christ, are now being transformed by the Spirit of God into the image of Christ.
You are merely repeating what the scriptures say. You are not explaining anything.
I am explaining the meaning of the two verses from 1 Corinthians, verses 17, and 18, that you found in hopes to support your position. The process is known as exposition followed by exegesis.
I have showed you what 1 Corinthians 3:17,18 are speaking about. You are offering nothing to demonstrate error in my explication of these two verses. Just saying "it is not so" is not a defense of your views.Now we examine 2 Corinthians 3:17, "the Lord is the Spirit"…
As we will see this phrase is not pneumatological ("Jesus" equals "Spirit") as GT would like it to be, but Christological. No, the first phrase the Lord is the Spirit is not teaching that the "Lord" in the phrase is "the Spirit" in the phrase. Examination of the second phrase the Spirit of the Lord makes it clear that "the Lord" that we turn to and "the Spirit of the Lord" are distinguished from one other-two different persons. He to whom we turn is Jesus Christ, so the Spirit of the Lord is Jesus Christ's "Spirit", who is the Spirit of the living God referred to in 2 Corinthians 3:3. From Romans 8:9-10 we clearly see the "Spirit of Christ" is the Spirit of God.
The scriptures are speaking of the Lord, and the Spirit. That is what the scriptures are saying plainly and clearly. The scriptures plainly and clearly say twice that the Lord is the Spirit.
You have now twisted the scripture that plainly and clearly says the Lord is the Spirit. You have twisted it to say the Spirit of the Lord. What you did is reprehensible.
I have already pointed out your method of moving on to new verses when you cannot defend my answers to previous verses you use. When you are ready to explain these two verses, not just quote them, I will be happy to discuss them in detail with you, GT . I am not going to continue to carry the burden of this discussion while you simply list Scripture verses and then fold your arms as if you have actually accomplished something here. Some hints for you follow. To properly understand "one Spirit" in Ephesians 2:18, back up two verses and then see Ephesians 4:4. Now at Ephesians 4:4 see Ephesians 1:23, 1 Corinthians 12:13, and Romans 8:9.The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ are the same Spirit.
There is only One Spirit.
See Ephesians 4:4, and Ephesians 2:18.
John 5:21 is a parallelism illustrating the self-disclosure of God the Father in God the Son. As we read in 2 Kings 5:7 the Jews understood well that God the Father could raise the dead. God the Father is fully God. The parallelism in John 5:21 drives home the fact that Jesus of Nazareth, a man who walked the streets of Palestine, is also fully God. The Holy Spirit gives life, for it is the Holy Spirit who is the agent of the resurrection of the spiritually dead to reborn life. These three persons (subsistences) are not dividing God's essence into three equal portions to make three gods. Rather, each of these persons fully partake of the one essence of God.The three are One and the same.
You referenced 2 Corinthians 3:6. However, to prove to you that the three are One and the same study more carefully these scriptures:
The Spirit gives life, 2 Corinthians 3:6
God gives life see John 5:21.
Jesus gives life see John 5:21.
I see. Since you obviously cannot defend your views, you resort to toadying to the crowd with "Calvinism!" in hopes to deflect attention elsewhere. This topic is not specific to Calvinism, GT. It is specific to all of Christianity.Jesus Christ of the Scriptures is met by the believer. Paul's view is the Lord to be the Spirit at work illuminating believers of proper understanding of God's revelation. That is, through the Word, the Holy Spirit changes the heart of a person, leading him the freedom in Jesus Christ.
Be careful that you do not get into Calvinism here.
I have already discussed the procession (the filioque) of the Holy Spirit by the Father and the Son, GT. Your observations only support my claims that the Holy Spirit, by virtue of the filioque is distinguished from the Father and the Son!In fact, using a wee bit different phraseology, Paul says the same thing elsewhere:
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. (Romans 8:1-2)
We also have the testimony of the Scriptures in our support here teaching us that Jesus Christ is the giver of the Spirit, John 4:14; 7:37-39; 15:26; 16:7; 19:30; Acts 2:33, and that the Spirit is given as a result of hearing the Good News, Acts 10:44; 19:2; Gal 3:1-5; Eph 1:13.
God sends the Holy Spirit
Galatians 4:6 Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father." And John 14:26.
Jesus sends the Holy Spirit.
Luke 24:49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high." And John 15:26; 16:7.
I have been saying throughout this discussion, GT, that you are not able to defend your views. "Stop writing so much" proves my point. Please review my examination of the passage you disagree with and point out its errors. All your shouting (all caps), hands-over-ears, eye-squinting, "stop writing so much!" won't make me go away or improve your miserable defense of your anti-Trinity heresy.The "which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit" from GT's translation preference or even the NASB's "Just as from the Lord, that is, the Spirit" has only four Greek works in the underlying text:
Stop writing so much. You think that with all your talk you can justify the twisting of the scriptures. You will be held accountable to God for what you are doing.
Again, the scriptures PLAINLY AND CLEARLY SAYS the Lord is the Spirit.
The scriptures also say what you do not, and that is God gives the Spirit, and Jesus gives the Spirit.
… This is just more useless ramblings.
Are you done with this discussion, GT?Be quiet. You have not shown anything, except that you distort the truth.
You are merely quoting a verse I actually explained, GT. You have added nothing to the argument. Engage the arguments I am presenting in defense of the Triune Godhead or recognize that you have no real defense for your views.The body is made a live by receiving its soul; it then becomes a living body.
Genesis 2:7 Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
GT, you posted these same verses here and I have already adequately responded to them here. Jesus Christ is not God's soul. Yikes, is there no end to your odd views? You are all twisted up in overly literal readings of Scripture and it shows. You are in desperate need of proper instruction in how to study the Scriptures. I suspect that if you would humbly admit this, then you would soon shed yourself of these errors.The scriptures plainly and clearly say God has a soul. That soul is Jesus Christ whom existed before coming to earth.
(Leviticus 26:11) (Leviticus 26:30) (Isaiah 42:1) (Zechariah 11:8) (Matthew 12:18) (Hebrews 10:38)
GT, we all know the words being used in a verse, but we all do not know what they mean. This is the point of proper interpretation of Scripture. I have provided proper interpretation. You have not. When are you going to start carrying your portion of the burden of defending your views?Finally, using John 17:5 GT suggests the claim that since Jesus possessed "glory" before the world began then He must have possessed a glorified body, just like the one's the saints will have come the eschaton. But, once more, this is an example of GT's inability to properly interpret Scripture. The context of the passage in question is the humiliation of God the Son in the incarnation, in that He was brought low from the fullness of His pre-incarnation glory. The passage has absolutely nothing to do with glorified bodies pre-existing the incarnation.
Jesus plainly and clearly says with the same glory he had with God before the world began.