ECT NT Eschatology #5: Acts 26 shapes Israel's outcome

[HisServant]

Let us see how smart you are. Do you agree with tet that these two events have already come to pass?:

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved...Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness" (2 Pet.3:10-11, 13).​

"And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest" (Heb.1:10-11).​

Jesus and John said they were to be fulfilled shortly... do you think Jesus and John were stupid?

Scripture, if you believe is inerrant, DEMANDS that you believe they were... how these things were actually fulfilled will be revealed to us when we stand before God someday.

It just amazes me that the entire dispensationalist eschatology is based on a man making a judgement against God and trying to force his hand to fulfill prophesy in the way he see fit.

Revelation was written in a Jewish Apocryphal style... it was never intended for literal interpretation. Yet you and your ilk make a living out of turning some parts of Daniel and Revelation into bizarre and strange doctrines that would make a 1st century Jew (who would have understood the symbolism) laugh at you.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry, the new heavens and new earth are not literal.

So we must believe that in the New Heavens and the New Earth that there is need of the sun and the moon despite the evidence to the contrary:

"And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof" (Rev.21:23).​

Accrding to your delusional ideas we are now living in the New Heavens and the New Eartharth despite what we read here:

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea... And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away" (Rev.21:1,4).​

I know that you live in a world which is divorced from reality but believe me when I tell you that death and plain remain with us.

I will not waste another second discussing things with someone who has no ability to reason out of the Scriptures.

 

[whitestone]

Jerry, the new heavens and new earth are not literal.

Early church fathers from the third and fourth century knew this:

"the old and elementary system passed away with a great noise; all these predicted empires have actually fallen, and the new kingdom, the new heaven and earth, the new Jerusalem--all of which were to descend from God, to be formed by His power, have been realised on earth " - Eusebius, Theophania

"For if the heavens are to be changed, assuredly that which is changed does not perish, and if the fashion of the world passes away, it is by no means an annihilation or destruction of their material substance that is shown to take place, but a kind of change of quality and transformation of appearance. Isaiah also, in declaring prophetically that there will be a new heaven and a new earth, undoubtedly suggests a similar view." Origen, Principles, 2:6:4

you quote men who tried to analyze things several years after the fact(like us),,and a sheer wacko who taught not only reincarnation but that an evil spirit was set into a darker if not black body in reincarnation,,,,

 

[tetelestai]

So we must believe that in the New Heavens and the New Earth that there is need of the sun and the moon despite the evidence to the contrary:

"And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof" (Rev.21:23).​

The above verse is speaking of the kingdom, not planet earth.

Accrding to your delusional ideas we are now living in the New Heavens and the New Eartharth despite what we read here:

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea... And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away" (Rev.21:1,4).​

All fulfilled in Christ Jesus.

Right now, all believers from all of human history are in the kingdom reigning with Christ Jesus. There are no tears there, no crying, no sorrow, no death, no pain, etc..

When I die, that's where I'm going.

I know that you live in a world which is divorced from reality but believe me when I tell you that death and plain remain with us.

Here on planet earth yes, but not in the kingdom.

I'm an ambassador for Christ Jesus, my citizenship is in heaven.

I will not waste another second discussing things with someone who has no ability to reason out of the Scriptures.

You have no ability to think outside of your Dispensationalism box. You try to make every verse in the Bible fit Darby's false teachings.

 

[tetelestai]

you quote men who tried to analyze things several years after the fact(like us),,and a sheer wacko who taught not only reincarnation but that an evil spirit was set into a darker if not black body in reincarnation,,,,

My point was that people long ago have understood that the new heavens and the new earth are not literal.

Then about 150 years ago, Darby invented Dispensationalism, and now all Darby's followers claim a brand new planet earth will be created right after the existing planet earth is destroyed.

 

[whitestone]

yeah right,,,Origen follower,,,,1'st principles,,evil spirits are reborn into bodies that are of dark or black skin,,,,,

 

[tetelestai]

Revelation was written in a Jewish Apocryphal style... it was never intended for literal interpretation. Yet you and your ilk make a living out of turning some parts of Daniel and Revelation into bizarre and strange doctrines that would make a 1st century Jew (who would have understood the symbolism) laugh at you.

:thumb:

That's right.

Dispensationalists (Darby followers) actually think there's going to be a brand new planet earth with literally no seas on it.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jesus and John said they were to be fulfilled shortly... do you think Jesus and John were stupid?

John made it plain that the thousand year reign of the Lord Jesus on the earth will precede the New Heaven and the New Earth. Do you not believe Him?

And the lord Jesus said that when He returns to the earth that then He will sit upon the throne:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).​

Why don't you believe Him?

Scripture, if you believe is inerrant, DEMANDS that you believe they were... how these things were actually fulfilled will be revealed to us when we stand before God someday.

Since the Scriptures demand that you believe that the Lord Jesus will sit upon His throne when he returns to the earth then why do you deny it?

And tell me when the following happened:

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved...Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness" (2 Pet.3:10-11, 13).​

Since Peter wrote those words the same heaven remain above and the same earth remains under our feet. So you must be delusional if you think that heaven and that earth have been dissolved. Now let us look at this passage:

"And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest" (Heb.1:10-11).​

This is speaking about the heavens and the earth which were from the BEGINNING. According to your dumb ideas that heaven and earth have perished! When did that happen?

 

[tetelestai]

yeah right,,,Origen follower,,,,1'st principles,,evil spirits are reborn into bodies that are of dark or black skin,,,,,

(2 Cor 5:17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


When you were saved, did you literally become a new creature?

Did every old thing in your life literally pass away?

"new heaven and new earth" is covenantal symbolism.

 

[whitestone]

lol,,,,,them Clement of Alexandrian and Origen of Alexandria followers,,,their the real live mess,,,,lol,

 

[tetelestai]

John made it plain that the thousand year reign of the Lord Jesus on the earth will precede the New Heaven and the New Earth. Do you not believe Him?

Nice try Jerry.

Nowhere does it say "on the earth".

You made that up.

 

[whitestone]

:thumb:

That's right.

Dispensationalists (Darby followers) actually think there's going to be a brand new planet earth with literally no seas on it.

pbbbbbssssttttttt,,,,,,,,Church of Smyrna didn't exist in 70ad,,,,,,"PROOVE IT",,,

 

[Interplanner]

There is nothing plain about the 1000 years being on earth like the British Empire was on earth. Peter didn't mention it and had plenty of space to. Nor did anyone else.

On Mt 25, it is hard to say exactly when he was speaking of because Acts 2 and Eph 1 are so clear that he is enthroned from the resurrection onward.

 

[tetelestai]

And the lord Jesus said that when He returns to the earth that then He will sit upon the throne:

More embellishment by Jerry

Nowhere does any verse in the Bible say "when He returns to the earth".

Once again, you made it up.

 

[Interplanner]

The grammar for 2 Cor 5 actually goes:
if any man is in Christ the New Creation, old things have passed, new things have come about.

ie the emphasis is not on each individual but on Christ and what took place in Him.

 

[Interplanner]

More embellishment by Jerry

Nowhere does any verse in the Bible say "when He returns to the earth".

Once again, you made it up.

Or at least we would not want to assume it is at a "return" (as Jerry thinks of it) when the resurrection, the Spirit's outpouring and the judgement of Jerusalem are still options because they had not happened when this was spoken.

 

[tetelestai]

pbbbbbssssttttttt,,,,,,,,Church of Smyrna didn't exist in 70ad,,,,,,"PROOVE IT",,,

That's really easy to prove.

Here you go:

(Rev 2:8) To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:...

John didn't write to a church that didn't exist.

Only a fool would claim it didn't exist.

 

[whitestone]

(2 Cor 5:17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


When you were saved, did you literally become a new creature?

Did every old thing in your life literally pass away?

"new heaven and new earth" is covenantal symbolism.

I was saved on the cross before you or Origens nonsense came into existence,,,,see the difference?

 

[whitestone]

That's really easy to prove.

Here you go:

(Rev 2:8) To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:...

John didn't write to a church that didn't exist.

Only a fool would claim it didn't exist.

oh boy now were going to examine Polycarps letter again,,,,wheres Musterion?,,,

 

[tetelestai]

I was saved on the cross before you or Origens nonsense came into existence,,,,see the difference?

Did you literally become a new creature?