ECT No one was "looking forward to the cross"

[Danoh]

Could you explain these scriptures to me?

1 Peter 1:10Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who foretold the grace that would come to you, searched and investigated carefully, 11trying to determine the time and setting to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. 12It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they foretold the things now announced by those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

The following may, or may not, prove fruitful.

But one never knows just what piece falls into place that finally allows one person to see what the other one does, and or vice versa.

1- Peter is asserting that the Prophets had been unsure of when those things they had Prophesied about Christ would take place.

2- Peter is also asserting that said Prophets had not been given to know the exact details of how the various events concerning Christ would play out.

3- Lastly, Peter is asserting that although that had been the case, said Prophets had been instructed not to concern themselves with all that; that all they needed to know was that their words were for those said words were meant for - for their comfort also.

Peter's actual point to his readers?

A- The Prophets had endured great hardship and persecution at the hands of many within Israel as said Prophets waited for the Lord's 1st Advent.

B- This, without even knowing when Messiah the Prince they were Prophesying about, would come.

C- Peter is encouraging his readers to do the same - to endure unto the end.

That is to say; no man knoweth the hour of His glorious return - but theirs is to wait; expecting His return just may be in their day.

1 Peter 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

 

[Interplanner]

Were those who heard the "good news" (gospel) preached here by Paul saved when they believed it?:

"And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God...proving that this is the very Christ" (Acts 9:20,22).​

Of course those who believed that gospel received life when they were born of God (Jn.20:30-31;1 Jn.5:1-5).

If you knew anything about what was preached during the Acts period you would know that there were TWO saving gospels and not just one.

There is no proof that showing he is the Son and Messiah is any different from showing he was an atoning sacrifice. He was the Lamb and his death was mentioned all along.

 

[God's Truth]

The following may, or may not, prove fruitful.

But one never knows just what piece falls into place that finally allows one person to see what the other one does, and or vice versa.

1- Peter is asserting that the Prophets had been unsure of when those things they had Prophesied about Christ would take place.

2- Peter is also asserting that said Prophets had not been given to know the exact details of how the various events concerning Christ would play out.

3- Lastly, Peter is asserting that although that had been the case, said Prophets had been instructed not to concern themselves with all that; that all they needed to know was that their words were for those said words were meant for - for their comfort also.

Peter's actual point to his readers?

A- The Prophets had endured great hardship and persecution at the hands of many within Israel as said Prophets waited for the Lord's 1st Advent.

B- This, without even knowing when Messiah the Prince they were Prophesying about, would come.

C- Peter is encouraging his readers to do the same - to endure unto the end.

That is to say; no man knoweth the hour of His glorious return - but theirs is to wait; expecting His return just may be in their day.

1 Peter 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

I gave the scripture knowing what it meant. I just wanted to see how the madists would try to deny the truth.

 

[Danoh]

I gave the scripture knowing what it meant. I just wanted to see how the madists would try to deny the truth.

Which so called madists?

There are different groups using that label.

Each group holding very different understandings on some things.

Anyway, you posted the passage, asked your question, and I made an attempt to answer it.

I have done so.

 

[musterion]

Could you explain these scriptures to me?

1 Peter 1:10

Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who foretold the grace that would come to you, searched and investigated carefully, 11trying to determine the time and setting to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves BUT YOU, when they foretold the things NOW announced by those who preaches the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

The prophets wanted to know exact details (who wouldn't?) but it was not given them to know. They were told that what they did know, they were writing not for themselves but for the benefit of the future apostles and those to whom the apostles preached.

 

[God's Truth]

Which so called madists?

There are different groups using that label.

Each group holding very different understandings on some things.

Anyway, you posted the passage, asked your question, and I made an attempt to answer it.

I have done so.

Give a fast run down of the three different groups with that label. Which of those groups deny that it was known that Jesus would die and raise again and give us this grace we have?

 

[God's Truth]

The prophets wanted to know exact details (who wouldn't?) but it was not given them to know. They were told that they were writing what they did know, not for themselves, but for the benefit of the future apostles and those to whom the apostles preached.

Right, I know that, but then why do madists say no one knew that Jesus would come and die and this grace would be given?

 

[musterion]

Right, I know that

Then why did you ask?

but then why do madists say no one knew that Jesus would come and die and this grace would be given?

Because Christ Himself said the disciples didn't know until after it had happened.

 

[God's Truth]

Then why did you ask?

I wanted the madists to see that people did know.

Because Christ Himself said the disciples didn't know until after it had happened.

Even the wicked unbelievers knew he said he would die and raise again.

 

[God's Truth]

Matthew 16:20 Then He admonished the disciples not to tell anyone that He was the Christ. 21From that time on Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests, and scribes, and that He must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. 22Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him. “Far be it from You, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to You!”

Matthew 17:23
They will kill Him, and on the third day He will be raised to life." And the disciples were deeply grieved.

Matthew 20:18
"Look, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and scribes. They will condemn Him to death

Matthew 20:19
and will deliver Him to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. And on the third day He will be raised to life."

Matthew 27:63
"Sir," they said, "we remember that while He was alive that deceiver said 'After three days I will rise again.'

Did you see that?

Even the wicked unbelievers knew what he said.

 

[musterion]

Believers in Israel had been waiting for centuries for something God in mercy had promised was coming. Someone was coming to take away their sin. That's what they knew. They apparently had little idea of who, when or how.

We now know that there were shadows and types of Him all through the Old Testament. Some may have been spotted by the Jews back then, others not. The point is, we do not have the luxury (from our point of view of having the entire Bible) of saying they had to know everything that we know now. They simply didn't, not even the ones who walked with Him.

 

[musterion]

I wanted the madists to see that people did know.

What you think they knew and what they actually knew are two very different things.

Even the wicked unbelievers knew he said he would die and raise again.

For what reason would He do that, did they think? To save Jews and Gentiles equally apart from Israel, with neither one having any preference before God? Which would make the horrible Cross the best news in all of human history? Is that what you think they knew?

No.

 

[God's Truth]

Believers in Israel had been waiting for centuries for something God in mercy had promised was coming. Someone was coming to take away their sin. That's what they knew. They apparently had little idea of who, when or how.

We now know that there were shadows and types of Him all through the Old Testament. Some may have been spotted by the Jews back then, others not. The point is, we do not have the luxury (from our point of view of having the entire Bible) of saying they had to know everything that we know now. They simply didn't, not even the ones who walked with Him.

Everyone knew Jesus was the Forgiver.

So how do madists claim people were taught a different gospel?

 

[God's Truth]

What you think they knew and what they actually knew are two very different things.






For what reason would He do that, did they think? To save Jews and Gentiles equally apart from Israel, with neither one having any preference before God? Which would make the horrible Cross the best news in all of human history? Is that what you think they knew?

No.

Who but God can forgive sins? Who but God can raise again?

 

[musterion]

Everyone knew Jesus was the Forgiver.

So how do madists claim people were taught a different gospel?

Because the gospel of the Kingdom was not the gospel of the grace of God.

Which one is the gospel Gentiles are told to believe for salvation? The second one.

Two Gospels.

 

[musterion]

Or put it this way.

The gospel of the Kingdom keys on national Israel and Jews FIRST.

The gospel of the grace of God doesn't even consider Israel or any specific nation at all, but focuses on all Jews and Gentiles, all equally lost individuals.

 

[Interplanner]

Or put it this way.

The gospel of the Kingdom keys on national Israel and Jews FIRST.

The gospel of the grace of God doesn't even consider Israel or any specific nation at all, but focuses on all Jews and Gentiles, all equally lost individuals.

It is one and the same. There is no gospel ABOUT the kingdom. It is possessive case, grammatically, meaning a great announcement from the (new arrived) reign of Christ, or belonging to it, or because of it. But not ABOUT where the good part is THE FACT of a kingdom. Nor is the 'basileiu' in question a civic authority, a monarchy or a theocracy.

all those are fake theology

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

It is one and the same.

Impossible.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

David said the resurrection was the enthronement, sorry. there is nothing in the sermon that has to do with anything X000 years in the future. That's what 2P2P WANTS but it is parasitic and thinks everyone thinks its way (in the bible).

what it should realize is that Judaism was expecting a monarchy right then and missed the whole point. thenit has to realize that what came was better and was actually what the prophets were talking about in the 3 passages they used which I listed above in the earlier post, Acts 2, 13, 15.

After that was absorbed by the apostles, there is no reference anywhere in the NT to another monarchy, and there is no reason why it should. Everything is about the mission of the Gospel, which God launched through Christ and the Spirit. That is what the kingdom or reign of Christ is about, as you can see from the parables.

Spiritual truth is not a dirty word. There was a copy or shadow throne on earth but now there is Christ's and it can redeem all. Jerry should realize that that throne saves his soul.

:chuckle:

 

[Nick M]

I almost forgot. Somebody posted their made up narrative. I don't remember if it was IP or GT. Doesn't really matter. "Jesus" was not looking forward to the cross either.

Matthew 26

39 He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, “O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will.”