Hi and they were NOT called CHRISTIANS until Acts 11:26 , so where is your scripture ??
dan vp
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ECT Mystery Babylon
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Hi and they were NOT called CHRISTIANS until Acts 11:26 , so where is your scripture ??
dan vp
Rondonmonson
New member
Hello brother in Christ. I am going to explain what God has shown me recently through study and prayer. For 30 years as a Christian I was like this board, all over the place until I asked God for understanding.
1. Babylon is not a Mystery. 2. Babylon is not a City. 3. Babylon is not the RCC. 4. Babylon is not America or NYC nor can it be. 5. Babylon is not Rome. 6. Babylon is not Islam. 7. Babylon is not an Iraqi City.
1. Why does everyone say Mystery Babylon ? The word means Secret by Gods silence. In Rev 17:7, the Angel says why did you Marvel ? I will tell you the Mystery of the Woman/Harlot and the Beast that carries her with Seven heads and Ten horns. So seeing as how the Angel reveals the Mystery/Secret to us, why do we insist it is still a Mystery ? The Seven heads are Seven Mountains (rulers that arise out of the land, NOT Hills) and there are Seven kings, Five have fallen (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece) One is (Rome) and One is yet to come (Revived Rome/Euro Union/Anti-Christ and 10 Kings). When the Seventh king comes he will rule but a short time and the 8th King (Satan possesses the Anti-Christ) which is of the Seven will then rule for 42 months. Then the Mystery of the Harlot is told via the waters she sits on, she is Nations, Multitudes, Peoples and Tongues. So the Mystery is no more. The Beast is the False Government Systems (7) that has enslaved or conquered Israel, all Seven have or will have this in common. The Harlot is the False Religious side of this same System, she is all over the world by the end time, Islam, Buddhism, Witchcraft, and fake Churches etc. etc. She is destroyed by the Kings in League with the Beast who hate her. BUT WHY ?
Because the Anti-Christ demands to be worshiped as the ONLY GOD !! He destroys Islam and comes against Christians and Israel has to flee to the wilderness. The Babylon of Rev. 18 has nothing to do with the Harlot of Rev. 17. The Kings hate her and destroy her, but when Babylon is Destroyed in Rev. 18 the Kings cry and bemoan her destruction. False Religion is Destroyed, the Harlot is Judged in Rev. 17, and God uses the Anti-Christ and his Kings to do His Will Rev. 17:17 says so. Rev. 17:18 saying she is a City, is only a reminder of what the vision was that John saw. He saw a woman riding a Beast with Seven Heads and Ten horns, and on her head was written, BABYLON.....That is the City that comes to Remembrance when God sees all the False Religions, Babylon is the "Birthplace/Mother" of Harlots/False Religions.
In Rev. 18, the Last Beast System/Babylon will be destroyed with Plagues, this is only Gods Wrath destroying the wicked of the world, which also destroys her commerce, and of course by this time she is the habitation of Devils, because Satan has been cast down, and Apollyon and his Demons loosed from the pit. Thus Babylon has Fallen, has Fallen. God is going to destroy the Idol that Nebuchadnezzar saw in Daniel 2, at the end, with the Rock cut out of the Mountain, one Jesus Christ. Babylon is the Last False Gov. System that tries to Conquer Israel.
I guess I answered 2,3,4,5,6 and 7 prematurely.
God Bless
genuineoriginal
New member
The Bible states that it is.
Revelation 17:18 18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. |
Rondonmonson
New member
Revelation has 404 verses and 289 of them refer to the Old Testament. The book of Revelation is encoded with Old Testament lingo/verses. Rev. 18 can be seen in Jeremiah 50 and 51. The Harlot is called Babylon also, but she is False Religion. Babylon in Rev. 18 can not be the Harlot of Rev. 17. The Kings destroy the Harlot in Rev. 17:16, and cry and lament the destruction of Babylon.
The Woman in Rev. 12 is Israel, we know this because Joseph dreamed a dream, and he saw the sun, moon and 11 stars paying obeisance unto him. The woman in Rev. 12 is dressed in the sun, moon and 12 stars (She is Israel).
To say Revelation says she is a city, and not to recognize the way Revelation was written, imho, is a mistake. The Angels are called stars throughout Revelation. The Anti-Christ conquering, fighting, starving is called Four Horses. Demon hordes in Rev. 9 are called Locusts.
To say it is called a city is to not fully understand that yes, something called something in Rev. can very well just be a metaphor. The Seventh Angels Vial sounds and the "Cities of the Nations fell". Rev. 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Rev. 17 and 18 is only a fuller telling of Rev. 16. Rev. 16 is where Babylon falls. God remembers Babylon the Great City when the cities of the nations fall (plural) Babylon is the last beast system, the whole world that is being judged by Gods plagues. Babylon is only what God REMEMBERS when our world falls. Because that is where False Religion and False Gov. was birthed.
Rev. 17 is False Religion (Harlot) being judged.
Rev. 18 is Babylon or the Last Beast System of the Seventh Head of the Beast with Seven Heads. It is our whole world being judged by the plagues of God.
Once it is understood that Rev. can only be figured out by using the Old Testament to break the code, then Rev. becomes easy to understand.
genuineoriginal
New member
I am not failing to recognize the way Revelation was written.
I am relying on the way Babylon was understood by the Jews living in Israel after the first Diaspora (assuming that Revelation was written prior to 70 CE) and how Babylon was to be understood by believers during the second Diaspora.
Calling the city a woman and a harlot is a metaphor.
Revealing (as in the name of the book) that the woman in the vision is actually a city, is something else.
It is easy for me to understand, since I don't have my ability to see clouded by the false teachings of the "Left Behind" crowd.
Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
Rev 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
Rev 18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
Rev 18:12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
Rev 18:13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
Rev 18:14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
Rev 18:15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
Rev 18:16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
Rev 18:17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
Rev 18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
Rev 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
Rev 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. Rev 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Rondonmonson
New member
Jesus gave the Revelation to John in like AD 90 to 96. That is what most Biblical Scholars surmise. I love Israel, but I wouldn't place a whole lot of stock into a people who missed the coming of their own Messiah, they have been blinded because of their rebellion against God. That is what Daniels whole 70 Week Decree is about.
Did you see my first post ? Rev. 17 clearly says that the Angel told John the Mystery of the Beast and of the Woman. It is no Mystery (secret by Gods Silence) because the Angel revealed the Mystery. The Beast is described as a World Gov. System through the ages. The Harlot is described as many Nations, Peoples, Tongues so the Angel explained what the Waters meant. Now the Angel is further explaining the Vision, (THERE WAS BUT ONE VISION) and telling Jhon what it meant. What was imprinted on the woman's head ? It was not Rome, as many guess, because of the Seven Hills which is really Seven Rulers, but the name of Babylon was imprinted on her forehead. Thus the word Babylon the Great is the meaning of the Woman, she is likened unto the Harlot City of Babylon who had 100's of False gods and demi-gods. She was a Mystery, but God explained the Mystery, because the Harlot is destroyed by the Kings in Rev. 17:16, she is all over the world and many languages. She is False Religion, and God judges her, via the Kings in league with the Beast. The Babylon of Rev. 18 is totally different.
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Please explain the Babylon of Rev.ch 18.
Rondonmonson
New member
Sure brother, I only need the first 11 verses of chapter 18 to tell the story of who Babylon is. As I stated, the Harlot is False Religion, she is destroyed in Rev. 17 by the Kings of the Beast but in Rev. 18, we see a different dynamic at play. This is the story of the Seven Headed Beast which the Harlot rode. Every one of these Seven Heads have one thing in common, they either enslaved or conquered Israel. After the Jews were dispersed the world over they could not be conquered again until they were Revived (The Bones came back to life via Ezekiel's prophecy) and in 1948 they were reborn as a Country. The Seventh Head or 10 Kings and the Anti-Christ, will conquer Israel, we know this because Jesus tells the Jews they must flee Judea when the Abomination of Desolation happens. This is the common theme these Seven Heads on this Beast have. Which is why the USA, nor any other Super Power is a Head. Now to Rev. 18.
Revelation 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. {{ After the Angel that told of the Judgment of the Harlot is finished, another Angel comes forth and speaks about Babylon. The Angel says Babylon is Fallen, is fallen because God is going to judge the last Gov. System, just like he did 2500 years before with the hand writing on the wall, Mene, Mene, Tekel against the original Babylon and judged her, God is going to judge this last Beast System, (The World Gov.) which came against Israel and God. Satan has been cast out of Heaven, and Apollyon and his Hordes of Demons have been released from the bottomless pit, so the earth is the habitation of Devils. }}
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. {{ Notice, God is destroying Babylon with Plagues (of God) the rulers of earth are all pro Humanism, and anti-God. They have for years partaken of her wicked wine. Gods wine is the Holy Spirit, her wine is the Spirit of the Devil, and his Rule. Many men have gained riches through vulgarities, such as porn, abortion, and any number of evil practices, thievery etc. etc. I think God is telling Israel to come out of her My People (Flee to Judea) so you do not take part in her plagues, which she deserves. }}
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. 6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. {{ God is Judging mankind, with Plagues, Wrath, etc. etc. Which the world deserves.}}
7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
{{{ Notice, Death, Mourning, Famine, Torment will all come upon her in ONE DAY, (Short Time) just like the Kings rule with the Beast ONE HOUR, (SHORT TIME), she shall be utterly burned with Fire, we know that a 1/3 of the trees are burned and all of the Grasses are burned, this is no doubt the judgment against man-kind, the world, the last Gov. System that refuses to acknowledge the Godhead of God. And she says she is Royalty, but she is nothing but a pauper in Gods eyes. }})
{{ Notice also, the Kings here in verse 9 shall bewail, cry and lament for her Demise/Destruction (Babylon) by Fire. In Revelation 17:16, the Kings that Destroy the Harlot with Fire HATE HER, the Harlot and Babylon are two different entities. }}
10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. 11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: {{ The people John sees are trying to hide no doubt, standing afar off. And the Merchants, will cry and moan also, because God is destroying/judging the Earth with Fire and Plagues. The Commerce is Destroyed, NO DOUBT !!}}
The Harlot is Judged in Rev. 17 by the Anti-Christ and his Kings, they want to destroy all Religion, so False Religion is Judged and Destroyed, Islam is wiped out, the Anti-Christ will demand to be worshiped as God.
In Rev. 18, its the Judgment of Man-kind, the World, the men who govern the world, and ignore God at their own peril. They will be no more, God will utterly destroy them.
Sorry this is a little long, but since you asked, I wanted to be as clear as possible on my positions. I really think, just as I used to do also, people overthink Revelation.
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Thanks,
If Rev.ch 18 refers to the whole world, then how can this be so---
Rev 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
Rev 18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
LA
Rondonmonson
New member
Many things are spoken of as "her" just like God is called Him, but He is really a Spirit, not a He per se. There is no Rev. 18 in Reality. There is no Rev. 17 in Reality. I think these two chapters are a further telling of events that have already happened by the end of Rev. 16, I think Rev. 19 is the next chapter, IN REALTY, after Rev. 16, I think I can prove it. Rev. 17 is a Vision God showed John, no doubt. But the Harlot is killed off (False Religion) at the mid-point of the 7 Years, or start of the Wrath/42 Months. So that happens before the First Seal or at about the time the First seal is open. The Christians are in Heaven, the Anti-Christ is killing off any peoples who will not worship him as GOD !! So Chapter 17 happens at the First Seal.
Chapter 18 has just happened in Rev. 16. Both 17 and 18 are a more detailed description of events that have passed, let me prove Rev. 18 is Rev. 16.
The Seven Final Plagues or Vials: Notice they happen fast, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, I think this all happens in like a 30 Day Period. The First Vial/Plague is poured out, and grievous sores come upon all who has the Mark of the Beast. The Second Vial is poured out and the Sea turns as the blood of a dead man, and every living soul therein dies. The Third Vial, all the drinking water becomes Blood. The Fourth Vial depletes the ozone and men get scorched by the Sun. The Fifth Vial is poured out upon the Seat of the Beast (Babylon) and it turns Dark, and men curse God for their pain, but still repented not. (They hate God and hate Israel, so they are willing to come against Israel to spite God) The Sixth Vial was poured out and the Euphrates River was dried up, preparing the way of those nations angry with Israel to try and attack them and destroy them forever. (Not a 200 Million Horseman Army, that is Rev. 9 not Rev. 16) The False Prophet, Anti-Christ and Dragon send forth Three Evil Spirits, to entice mankind into war against Israel at Armageddon, but it is Jesus they will be fighting, Rev. 19, is the Saints coming back from the Marriage to the Lamb in Heaven, to fight those evil tyrants and to bring to an end the Evil Babylon Gov. System. ( I will be there, Amen.)
The Final Vial is Poured out. And a voice from Heaven says "It is Done" A great earthquake like never before shakes the earth. Rev. 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. Notice the CITIES of the NATIONS ? Plural, Babylon is all the World that is being judged, all men who took the Mark of the Beast, the last Great Gov. System is being Judged. God remembered Babylon, this is why it is called Babylon, God sees all False Religion and False Governments as Babylon. It reminds him from whence it was Birthed !!
Rev. 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
{{{ So the Final Vial is poured out in Chapter 16, and God says, it is Done. There is no Rev. 17 or 18 in reality. Rev. 17 happened at the mid-way point or around the First or Second Seal. Rev. 18 is Rev. 16 and the Final plagues of God. God says, IT IS FINISHED.Rev. 17 and 18 is just a more detailed rendering of how all False Religion is Destroyed, and how Babylon is Destroyed.(this city comes into Remembrance to God when the Wrath is coming upon the Evil of man-kind and the world.}}}
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
After the Vials are poured out, God remembers Evil Babylon !!
You see, Rev. 16 is the last true event before Rev. 19.
Ron,
Lets not ignore the "and" in--
Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
LA
Lets not ignore the "and" in--
Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
LA
Rondonmonson
New member
I don't follow, John used and over 1200 times in Revelation, many seem to think he was writing down visions he saw and Angels uttering as fast as he could, hence all the ANDS, AND, AND, AND etc.
To me, it changes no facts that I have presented. The Harlot is False Religion, and Babylon is the Last Gov. Beast System that conquers Israel. The rest is minutia.
Maybe if you spelled your point out in further detail, I never want to take anyone's point lightly bit I just do not get this point. THANKS.
genuineoriginal
New member
The internal evidence says Revelation was written before 70 CE.
The only external evidence that says different is one sentence.
"In this persecution [of Christians under Domitian], it is handed down by tradition, that the apostle and evangelist John, who was yet living, in consequence of his testimony to the divine word, was condemned to dwell on the island of Patmos. Irenaeus, indeed, in his fifth book against the heresies, ...speaks in the following manner respecting him: 'If, however, it were necessary to proclaim [the name of the Anti-Christ], ... it would have been declared by him who saw the revelation, for it is not long since it was seen, but almost in our own generation, at the close of Domitian's reign." (Eusebius, III, XVII)
You seem to have missed the word "believers", which shows that I am not referring to the people that missed the coming of their own Messiah, but instead I am referring to those that knew and accepted Jesus as the Messiah. These are the same believers that fled from Jerusalem in 66 CE to Pella because they believed Jesus' words in the prophecy of the great tribulation.
The word μυστήριον mystērion means a hidden thing, a secret, or a mystery.
The city called MYSTERY BABYLON is called that because it has the nature of Babylon (the city of the first Diaspora), but is hidden under a different name.
The angel never revealed what name the city is hidden under.
Claiming Mystery means secret by God's Silence is pure foolishness on your part.
Not at all.
That is just you attempting to force your own ideas onto text that does not support your ideas.
If you look at prophetic language, a beast is an empire and an empire's ruler, nothing more.
Once again, you refuse to accept the plain interpretation of the symbols.
The Harlot is not the waters that the Harlot sits on.
Revelation 17:15 15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. |
The Harlot is a city.
Revelation 17:18 18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. |
Being Babylon has nothing to do with "False Religion" and everything to do with the children of Israel being held in exile from the land of promise during the Diaspora.
The Diaspora was always fresh on the minds of the children of Israel, due in large part to the Jews that remained in exile (Babylon) even during the time of Jesus.
No, it is the same city as the one that is described in Revelation 17.
Rondonmonson
New member
The bulk of traditional sources date the book to the reign of the emperor Domitian (AD 81-96), and the evidence tends to confirm this.[4] Lets face it, kooks will say they have "proof" that Jesus was "married" also etc. etc. I do not buy the bunk. I think the tradition carries far more weight then supposed scholars who say all kind of crazy stuff. JMHO. I find people trying to make point change with the wind, use different versions of the bible to make points etc.
Which proves they did not have as god an understanding the as we do now. The Abomination of Desolation could not happen until the times we are living in our in the future a few years. It did not, nor could not happen in AD 66-70. They also had no clue about Babylons meaning in Revelation. Via 2000 years of research, and God revealing these things in the End Times like he told Daniel he wold do, we understand much more.
I study all things in the Hebrew and Greek.
#3466 μυστήριον musterion {moos-tay'-ree-on}
from a derivative of muo (to shut the mouth); TDNT - 4:802,615; n n
From a derivative of μύω [[muo]] (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites):—mystery.
It is well known that this word means a Secret By Silence. And who is keeping it a Secret ? God. Who revealed it via the Angel ? God ordered an Angel to reveal the "Secret" this is is not a Mystery anymore. The Angel clearly says in Rev. 17, come and I will show you the Mystery of the Woman and the Beast. The Secret is no more.
You can believe as you like, I only understand what God reveals to me. I am not going to knock your belief, but I am not going to doubt the Holy Spirit. Notice, I am not calling your beliefs out, just stating mine.
I just listen to the Holy Spirit, Sorry. No use us going over what I have explained before, the Harlot in my opinion is All False Religion, you are free to believe as you like, no use trying to lecture me on my belief.
I have explained my belief, if you disagree that is your right. Has nothing to do with my belief.
YES....That is why the Kings in Rev. 17 hate the Harlot and Destroy her, but Cry and Lament the destruction of Babylon in Rev. 18. Now you need to explain the difference.
The Difference imho, is that they are different entities. One is False Religion and one is False Gov.
Hence the Women rides the Beast...........TWO ENTITIES........Gov. and False Religion.
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Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts,
Where or what is the great city.
and the cities of the nations fell:
The cities of the nations are not the great city.
and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Great Babylon is not the great city nor the cities of the nations, but certainly effects the cities of the nations.
Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Rev 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
LA
Rondonmonson
New member
The Great City is Jerusalem, there is a Great Earthquake remember, when Jesus places his feet on the Mount of Olives....Zechariah 14:3 Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. 4 In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south. 5You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel; yes, you will flee just as you fled before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD, my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him!
{{ The Two Witnesses were killed in the Great City....Revelation 11:8 Their dead bodies will lie in the public square of the great city, which prophetically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. }}
Revelation 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. 18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. {{ So the Seventh Vial is poured out, IT IS DONE is announced, then the Great Earthquake come right after Armageddon, this is Jesus stepping foot on the Mount of Olives. It splits into, no doubt Jerusalem is split into three parts some way and the MOUNTAINS WERE NOT FOUND...See Below}}
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. {{ Wow, I just got some new info from this.......The Cities of the Nations Fell. Who Falls when they come against Israel at Armageddon ? The Nations come against Israel, and they FAIL or they FALL because Jesus Defeats them. We just figured this out by pondering and researching. This is how God reveals stuff to me/us. The Cities of the Nations is the Nations that Come against Israel. God will destroy them. }}
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
{{ So the Great City is Jerusalem, Jesus come to Save Israel from destruction and defeat the Armies that come against her at Armageddon, Jesus steps foot on the Mount of Olives and the Mountains disappear,a huge Valley forms, the Great City (Jerusalem) is divided into three parts. The Nations that came against Israel will FALL, Babylon will Fall, the Gov. System that is pushing the Worlds Nations to come against Israel will fall, God will destroy them all. Babylon will be Destroyed. The Babylon Gov. System that Conquers Israel for 42 Months, then tries to destroy her, will itself be destroyed.}}
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Ok.
Close.
Israel must consist of the gathered righteous (only)before the 7th vial.---
Eze 20:33 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:
Eze 20:34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
Eze 20:35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
Eze 20:36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 20:37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:
Eze 20:38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 38:1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Eze 38:2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
Eze 38:3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
Eze 38:4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:
Eze 38:5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
Eze 38:6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.
Eze 38:7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.
Eze 38:8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
Eze 38:9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.
Eze 38:10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:
Eze 38:11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
Eze 38:12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.
etc.
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Rondonmonson
New member
God brings Israel back, brought them back of course before 1948, but Israel became a country again in 1948. They of course still do not believe that Jesus is their Messiah, and they are banal and vile against any Jew that turns to Christianity. Here is where through much study, I depart from many in Christendoms thinking. Daniels 70 Sevens or 70 Weeks Decree says before Jesus comes back that basically Israel must return to God. This of course is true, but most people have the day/timing of Israels turning back to God wrong.
Malachi chapter 4 says God will send Elijah back to turn Israel back to God before the Day of the Lord. The Two-Witnesses witness for 1260 days, but they are killed before the Seven final Plagues, so I think they come to Israel, Jerusalem just before the Anti-Christ turns from his pretense of Peace, into the Monster he will be. Elijah turns Israel back to God (They accept the Messiah as their Savior, Zechariah 12:10 and Zechariah 13:1)then God turns His favor back to Israel, then when this Anti-Christ goes berserk, God protects them in the Wilderness for: you got it........1260 Days !! Israel might build the Temple for worshiping God in the Old Testament way, and for Sacrifices, but just before the Abomination of Desolation happens, Israel turns back to God and worships the Messiah, there may be some that continue in the old ways, or the Oblation (Honor) and Sacrifice of the Evening and the Morning spoken of by Daniel might just be referring to the worshiping of Jesus, our true Daily Sacrifice, who no one is allowed to worship, because they must now worship the Image of the Beast.
You see, I do not think God protects (Wilderness) or favors Israel until she turns back to God and accepts Jesus as the Messiah. The Word of God says Elijah will turn Israel back to God before the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord is a 42 Month period of Gods Wrath, it starts with the Abomination of Desolation and the First few Seals. So Israel has to turn back to God just before the Day of the Lord or just before the First Seal is opened. (Anti-Christ Revealed for who he is).
Daniels Daily on the Evening and the Morning never actually says Sacrifice in the Book of Daniel, that was added by the Translators because in their minds it had to be the two daily sacrifices. But maybe it was just the same Oblation or honoring of Jesus twice daily, without the Sacrifice !!
We have added that which is not there. Daniel 8:12 And an host 6635 was given 5414 z8735 [him] against x5921 the daily 8548 [sacrifice] by reason of transgression, 6588 and it cast down 7993 z8686 the truth 571 to the ground; 776 and it practised, 6213 z8804 and prospered. 6743 z8689
See the Word Sacrifice here in bold ? It was added as was him. So can the Daily just be the Worship of Jesus our Daily Lord/Bread ? Sacrifice was added. Seems Daniel would have placed this in the scriptures himself if it was a True Sacrifice. Just because the Old Testament Oblations were Sacrifices, doesn't mean that Daniel was saying the future events had to be Sacrifices.
As you do--
Deu 30:1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
Deu 30:2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
Deu 30:3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.
Deu 30:4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
It started in Acts.
The sacrifices and oblations of the old covenant were ended by Christs death.
The daily of Dan ch 12 is [the ending of] the light to the world through the churches the Apostles had established in the world.
Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
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